How to comparing output of two guitars ?

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ksor

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 9, 2012
Messages
154
Location
Arhus, Denmark
I have a Gibson LP and a Epiphone Lucille and turned fully up connected to the same amp - one at a time - the Gibson are "a lot louder" than the Epiphone.

How can I make them sound equal loud ?

I think I need some pre-amp build into the Epiphone but how much gain and what kind af pre-amp ?

I want to include in the "pre-amp" some Stereo Tremolo effect because the Epiphone has a stereo output facility.

All driven by one (or two)  9V batteries.

I have found some schematics for the tremolo but no one seems to have made them work and not with an adjustable "pre-amp" included.

Maybe I should just make a Stereo Tremolo and assume the gain control can do the adjustment so the Epiphone gets that louder output.

HELP - any ideas of what path to choose ?
 
To make them sound equal… use same pick-ups, same strings, same string height, same saddle material, same nut material, same tone wood, same pots and all the rest.

I would recommend you to look at active guitar pick-ups before trying to make one yourself… it is tricky to get it right.

Many artists use different guitars… to get different sounds and character… That is quite nice too :)

Best regards

/John
 
> what path to choose ?

Turn-down the Gibson?

You can complicate any way you want. But complication is work, and increased trouble. K.I.S.S. is often a good path.
 
Well,  different guitars, different electronics, etc ,etc, it's normal and well known the output volume, Sound/timbre and frequency response will not be the same.

Why do you want to change the Epiphone electronics?
All guitar player deal with the situation you have, normally it's solved by using a pedal to boost the signal on the lower output guitar. The pedal is off with you use the Gibson, and when you change for the Epiphone you turn the boost on.
This a pedal that works well for that, but there are loads and loads of options, just search for DIY guitar booster:
http://www.seymourduncan.com/pedal/pickup-booster

For tremolo you can use a pedal also for that.

If for any reason you want to install these circuits inside the guitar, I totally advise against that, then you can do a booster circuit followed by a tremolo circuit, it's as simple as that.

Search these sites:

Geofx
Tonepad
General guitar gadgets
Diystompboxes forum
Freestompboxes forum




 
Whoops said:
...
If for any reason you want to install these circuits inside the guitar, I totally advise against that, then you can do a booster circuit followed by a tremolo circuit, it's as simple as that.
...

Thx for the answer, but then I end up with something I don't like ... a mess of pedals, cables and power supplies ;-(( I'll rather keep that inside the guitar body ... if posible ;-))
 
But you will end up with that mess of cables inside a guitar instead… you will destroy any second hans value of the guitar if you do so… you could also get an amp with a tremolo… they come with a foot pedal for on/off switching as well.

If you would like to get a near output of the Epiphone you could swap the pickups for a pair more matching the ones in the Gibson.

Do not destroy your guitar by open up cavities for installing obscure circuits.

Just i piece of advise


Best regards

/John
 
johnheath said:
But you will end up with that mess of cables inside a guitar instead… you will destroy any second hans value of the guitar if you do so… you could also get an amp with a tremolo… they come with a foot pedal for on/off switching as well.

If you would like to get a near output of the Epiphone you could swap the pickups for a pair more matching the ones in the Gibson.

Do not destroy your guitar by open up cavities for installing obscure circuits.

Just i piece of advise


Best regards

/John

Well I don't believe in keeping an instrument prestine so you dont loose a second hand value. I really dislike that concept.
Guitars should be played and used, and as the owner you should do whatever you want for your needs.


Ksor, for booster there's a lot of different circuits, with DIY documentation and pcbs already made or easily home etched.
I recommend you the AMZ Mosfet Booster, simple and small enough, great sounding:
http://www.muzique.com/schem/mosfet.htm

As for Tremolo, there's  a strereo version of the Craig Anderton Tremolo.
I have the home etching files if you need
stereotremolo.gif





 
"Well I don't believe in keeping an instrument prestine so you dont loose a second hand value. I really dislike that concept.
Guitars should be played and used, and as the owner you should do whatever you want for your needs."


Yes, of course an instrument should be played well and often, but I know from experience that digging into a guitar should be done in a very modest way… it is so easy to make a mistake too many.

Besides… a built in tremolo is not often used nor in recording or playing live so… hmm, maybe not… I don't know I guess it is matter of personal taste.

Best regards

/John
 
johnheath said:
Yes, of course an instrument should be played well and often, but I know from experience that digging into a guitar should be done in a very modest way… it is so easy to make a mistake too many.

Why? You own it, you have needs, you can do whatever you want. Modest or not depends on your needs.
It's not like you are performing medical hearth surgery. It's just a guitar, it's not a scarce good there are much more guitars in the world than needs for them.


johnheath said:
Besides… a built in tremolo is not often used nor in recording or playing live so…

The Tremolo effect, sometimes wrongly called Vibrato, is quite popular and used regularly in either Live performances or studio.
I also prefer to have pedals and that was my advice, but each person as their own needs the Op said he prefers not to have pedals and to have the circuit built in the guitar.

That's quite common a lot of musicians have circuits built in the guitar, most common are Buffers, Booster, active EQ, but all sorts of effects were already bult-in into guitars

Muse guitar player with built in Korg Kaos Pad on his guitar:

matt-bellamy-live-glasses-corbis-460-100-90-75.jpg



More examples, first one with built in Tremolo:

kaycontrols2.jpg


YasukiLPFX-1_zpse0e70f68.jpg


Framus%2BSL-1002%2Bsemi%2Bhollow%2Bw%2Bbuilt%2Bin%2Beffects%2Bon%2BeBay.jpg


vox-guitar-organ.jpg



 
Yeah, yeah… I don't want to argue with you about what can, and what you cannot do to a guitar. I once use an old acoustic guitar as a tennis racket… for very short period of time of course

If you have the skills to perform wood work and such go ahead… if you don't… be careful because you might destroy a, otherwise, fine instrument.

And besides again… those guitars with all those stuff stuffed into them has probably lost everything they had concerning the tonal character but hey, I don't care about those guitars.

Maybe I am just old-fashioned when comes to the sweet tone of a guitar? :)

Best regards

/John


 
Just my two cents... 

if you're playing constantly (a continous guitar-line) and want to enable/disable an FX on the fly,
the switch might most conveniently NOT be on the instrument itself. So if you want to have the FX-circuit inside the instrument, you might want to consider a FootSwitch-jack on the guitar.

Bye
 
johnheath said:
Yeah, yeah… I don't want to argue with you about what can, and what you cannot do to a guitar. I once use an old acoustic guitar as a tennis racket… for very short period of time of course

If you have the skills to perform wood work and such go ahead… if you don't… be careful because you might destroy a, otherwise, fine instrument.

And besides again… those guitars with all those stuff stuffed into them has probably lost everything they had concerning the tonal character but hey, I don't care about those guitars.

Maybe I am just old-fashioned when comes to the sweet tone of a guitar? :)

Best regards

/John

Yes I'm with you, I don't think Ksor should do the woodwork himself,    if he wants to do something like this then  the guitar woodwork and installation of the pcb's, wiring and switches should be done by a professional Luthier.

Any pedal or circuit will change the tonal character of the guitar, people use them because they find the improvements are much higher than the losses.

 
Whoops said:
Ksor, for booster there's a lot of different circuits, with DIY documentation and pcbs already made or easily home etched.
I recommend you the AMZ Mosfet Booster, simple and small enough, great sounding:
http://www.muzique.com/schem/mosfet.htm

As for Tremolo, there's  a strereo version of the Craig Anderton Tremolo.
I have the home etching files if you need

Thx, for the answer !

The guitar already HAVE a stereo output - but USELESS I think = one pickup in each channel ... what's the idea here ??????
So I was just after a little more usefull into that "stereo" output - that's why the "Stereo Trem-idea" came up ;-))

Yeah, I've seen that trem schematic somewhere and I asked for some who had experience with it - no answer back then, but do you have it working ?

IF SO - does it add any gain to the signal - maybe it could compensate for the less output of the Epiphone so no "Booster" is needed ?

Do you have a sound sample or links to some ?
 
Regarding the stereo jack outputs:

I'm not sure how your Epiphone guitar's stereo jack is wired, but it may be similar to the Rickenbacher Rick-O-Sound.  See the info in this website below that sells a box to use with the Rick-O-Sound guitar jack.  Rickenbacker came out with this in the 1970's.  If you have 2 channels on your amp, it can create lots of nice effects.  The box is easy to build.

http://rich-e-split.com/Home.php
 
ksor said:
Thx for the answer, but then I end up with something I don't like ... a mess of pedals, cables and power supplies ;-(( I'll rather keep that inside the guitar body ... if posible ;-))
You could build a simple resistive pad into a jack of the guitar cord...  I wouldn't alter the instrument as that might affect its resale value.

JR
 
As you are not knowledgeable to understand the circuits and what you need to do, the only thing I can advise you is to take the guitar to a Luthier to help you out.
 
musika said:
Regarding the stereo jack outputs:

I'm not sure how your Epiphone guitar's stereo jack is wired, but it may be similar to the Rickenbacher Rick-O-Sound.  See the info in this website below that sells a box to use with the Rick-O-Sound guitar jack.  Rickenbacker came out with this in the 1970's.  If you have 2 channels on your amp, it can create lots of nice effects.  The box is easy to build.

http://rich-e-split.com/Home.php

Easy ... yeah, these is nothing but 3 Jacks in there ... crazy box = like the most useless box in the world !
 
Whoops said:
As you are not knowledgeable to understand the circuits and what you need to do, the only thing I can advise you is to take the guitar to a Luthier to help you out.

Ha, ha, .... nearly regret the "Thx" ;-((
 
So hundreds of guitarists have no problem at all with having guitars that have different output levels. They have a knob on the amp, turn it up or down. Or they invest in complex rigs with switchers and pedals. No problem. But you are different? The one guitarist in the world with this problem? Whoops has suggested based on what he has read of your replies that you should take it to a professional. But you disparage this? Others have suggested that building into the guitars will mean they lose resale value.
Please, go away, fix your problem with a bit of thought, and leave us to our lives. This forum is meant to help people with serious problems.
 
The easiest solution is to adjust the height of the pickups. Raise them to give a hotter output and vice versa. Often this is all you need.
 
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