pucho812

New Telefunken tubes
« on: January 11, 2017, 09:08:38 PM »
Anyone use any of the new Telefunken USA tubes? 

Any good?
Every mic has a purpose it might be a door stop or a hammer, but every mic has a purpose.


gyraf

Re: New Telefunken tubes
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2017, 11:31:02 PM »
Did you follow the mess about their so-called VF14 over at GS a couple of years ago?  ::)

Jakob E.
..note to self: don't let Harman run your company..

Re: New Telefunken tubes
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2017, 12:32:40 AM »
From their website, they claim to be tested/selected and cryogenically treated JJ tubes with "Telefunken" stamped on the side. I have not heard a JJ or EH small triode that compared to an original Telefunken, RCA, GE, TungSol, Mullard, Westinghouse or Rayethon equivalent tube. The JJ's preamp tubes consistently sound harsh and brittle to me.

The JJ power tubes don't suck in guitar amps though. The EL34L compares favorably to the Mullard XF2's I have here. Haven't compared 6L6's or any other power tubes.

pucho812

Re: New Telefunken tubes
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2017, 12:12:06 PM »
Did you follow the mess about their so-called VF14 over at GS a couple of years ago?  ::)

Jakob E.

I did not. I am not a member, I refuse to be part of a group referred to as sluts.

My interest is the preamp tubes at this point.  I had a few people making claim that their e88CC tube  sounded better then the stock tubes we use for production which are EH. We use the EH as the decision makers felt at the time it sounded best out of current production stuff especially since sovtek no longer makes them.  I take sounds better claims with a grain of salt, but I do take opinions around here from the brain trust seriously.
Every mic has a purpose it might be a door stop or a hammer, but every mic has a purpose.

Conviction

Re: New Telefunken tubes
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2017, 01:20:23 PM »
I'm sure a TFK USA-labeled JJ can sound good, but I doubt cryo has anything to do with it, or the fact that they try to build upon the historically renowned Telefunken.

JJ and their extremely inconsistent production (EL84's anyone?) leads me to believe it's a matter of selecting 'good' tubes.

gyraf

Re: New Telefunken tubes
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2017, 02:30:22 AM »
JJ and their extremely inconsistent production (EL84's anyone?) leads me to believe it's a matter of selecting 'good' tubes.

Amen to that.

Which leaves even more dubious tubes for everyone else  ::)

Pucho,

Look up the thread(s) about the TelefunkenUSA VF14 over there - it will tell you some important information about the nature of that company, and most probably answer your question about these "new" preamp tubes..

Jakob E.
..note to self: don't let Harman run your company..

My3gger

Re: New Telefunken tubes
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2017, 03:48:03 PM »
Not long ago a few of us here were talking about using NOS tubes vs new production, i was asking about strange eBay "NOS" offers. Too many are fakes, or used too much, prices high for good ones, so very unreliable and expensive. Getting good sellers elswere at least in Europe gives similar problems. Diy or not, we came to conclusion new production is the way to go because sound is good. If tube is not made new, than NOS.
It seems like EH are best from new production; consistent enough, durable even in mixers with many tubes and a few years of use, sound is comparable to NOS. All this saves a lot of money and problems from what is left of NOS. Most of us share the same experience with JJ...

CJ

Re: New Telefunken tubes
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2017, 01:57:05 AM »
had some weird EH 12AX7a tubes that had gain beyond what a normal AX has,

JJ tubes sound great but you will probably have to replace them more often than a NOS tube,

and their 6L6 tubes bias up at 46 volts instead of 52 for a plate voltage of 460, so they are kind of like half way between a 6L6 and EL34 bias wise.

If I can't fix it, I can fix it so nobody else can!
Frank's Tube Page: www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/vs.html
Guitar Amps: http://bmamps.com/Tech_sch.html

jensenmann

Re: New Telefunken tubes
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2017, 03:05:28 AM »
Not long ago a few of us here were talking about using NOS tubes vs new production, i was asking about strange eBay "NOS" offers. Too many are fakes, or used too much, prices high for good ones, so very unreliable and expensive. Getting good sellers elswere at least in Europe gives similar problems. Diy or not, we came to conclusion new production is the way to go because sound is good. If tube is not made new, than NOS.

That´s exactly my experience. I´m totally fed up with unreliable NOS tubes. I only us new ones.
In opposite to most people here I had many bad EH tubes, though, and find JJs to be a lot better (=less microphonic, more consistent). But lately I´ve been using TAD tubes. They use selected chinese tubes and have their own inhouse QC which is true and not only marketing blablabla. I´ve been there several times and seen it, as well as I had conversation with the owner about tubes etc. As you might think you get the better tubes when buying their selected premium line while you get the rest if you buy the cheaper ones...
Jens
Quote from: PRR
The tubes of course don't care what frequency they distort

Pip

Re: New Telefunken tubes
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2017, 11:59:56 AM »
I have not myself used the re-branded Telefunken USA tube products as they are rather pricey for what they are. Sadly I also have to chime in on the VF14 charade and say I think they (Telefunken-USA) should be a little more informative about what they are putting in the plastic VF14 looking envelope. At this point there is very little doubt in this DIY'ers mind that it is a selected maybe cryo-treated 407a.  My opinion is that there is more marketing then magic going on with their items!

I, based on my experience with (certain) JJ tubes, find the sentiment that they are inconsistent in nature not to be true, in my rather lengthy experience with their product I like them! Now let me qualify I only use their 6L6, 12AT7 and once in a while their EL34 and I always buy the power tubes  in duets and quads pre-matched by my supplier, who I have been using for over 20 years! They (JJ) have been one of the most consistent brands out there in both sound and reliability, by far!

Yes TAD sells a good product as well and if my supplier carried them I would use them more!

I am going to take a moment here and state that, IMO, no EL84 ever has been made to really handle the rigorous needs of being in a guitar amp. Every single amp I have ever owned or used that uses EL84's, in the power stage, always eventually fried. The Vox AC30 being the origin of that whole way of thinking. Yeah they sound great until they don't, always at exactly the wrong time!!! Lets be honest what do we like about the EL84? It is bright and breaks up really early in lo-watt circuits! Right?

Does Svetlana make the tube you are looking for?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2017, 12:24:21 PM by Pip »
Pip
New York City
http://geosonixlab.com


My3gger

Re: New Telefunken tubes
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2017, 04:00:58 PM »
had some weird EH 12AX7a tubes that had gain beyond what a normal AX has,

JJ tubes sound great but you will probably have to replace them more often than a NOS tube,

and their 6L6 tubes bias up at 46 volts instead of 52 for a plate voltage of 460, so they are kind of like half way between a 6L6 and EL34 bias wise.

Yes, last week i replaced slightly used Siemens ECC83 for older EH in organ amp, it has much higher gain. Guitar crowd seem to like this short plate EH construction for low microphonics and high gain in input stages. Ian wrote about some comparisons of ECC83s, although not as extensive as for ECC88 type. He knows about tube mixers with EH 6922 and no problems for several years. JJ might became better, a few of us didn't find them as good like some others. Maybe you seller selects them like my local does with EH for input stages.

That´s exactly my experience. I´m totally fed up with unreliable NOS tubes. I only us new ones.
In opposite to most people here I had many bad EH tubes, though, and find JJs to be a lot better (=less microphonic, more consistent). But lately I´ve been using TAD tubes. They use selected chinese tubes and have their own inhouse QC which is true and not only marketing blablabla. I´ve been there several times and seen it, as well as I had conversation with the owner about tubes etc. As you might think you get the better tubes when buying their selected premium line while you get the rest if you buy the cheaper ones...

When working on Fender Pro one of TAD 6L6 became microphonic after 3 hours at quiet playing, happened a few weeks ago. They only sell selected new Svetlana EF86 which is tube i need a lot, do you have any experiences with TAD's? Can't remember if Svetlana has higher gain and lower Ri than other EF86, i've seen several small batches that had bent anode along not so good general construction.
How long TAD operates tubes at full power for screening, is it mostly for outputs? If they get such tolerances then Svetlana should be within tolerances and sounding like normal EF86. Can you tell us more about their testing rig, would be interesting to know because selection is the key with new.

Sorr

Re: New Telefunken tubes
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2017, 09:50:54 PM »
The curent production Sovtek, EH, TungSol, Mullard and Svetlana valves are all made in the one Sovtek (Reflector)factory.
I am not sure if the real Svetlana's or Winged C  are still being made.
A company, PEARL, has been treating valves by a cryogenic process for many years now.
So it would not surprise me if  Telefunken USA has jumped on the band wagon and just sent a batch of JJ's to the deep freeze.  Apparently it does make a big difference, but the way the valves are put through this process is also important. Anyway, unfortunately I haven't listened to any of the PEARL treated valves.
My experience with a Telefunken USA microphone was not good. Cant say anymore due to defamation laws. :P 

gyraf

Re: New Telefunken tubes
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2017, 04:48:08 AM »
The "value-adding" cryo process is audiophoolery imo.  Only helps in the "legitimizing heavy cost" parameter.

Think of it: The process is simple enough and very-cheap to do on an industrial scale, yet none of the great tube manufacturers did or do this.  ::)

Jakob E.
..note to self: don't let Harman run your company..

mjrippe

Re: New Telefunken tubes
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2017, 11:33:42 AM »
The "value-adding" cryo process is audiophoolery imo.  Only helps in the "legitimizing heavy cost" parameter.

Think of it: The process is simple enough and very-cheap to do on an industrial scale, yet none of the great tube manufacturers did or do this.  ::)

Jakob E.

Agreed.  I was told first-hand by an employee of an audiophile accessory provider that their cryo treatment consisted of an overnight in a styrofoam cooler full of dry ice. 

PRR

Re: New Telefunken tubes
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2017, 03:51:17 PM »
> overnight in a styrofoam cooler full of dry ice.

Omaha Steaks will ship you a styro box of dry ice for around $40, padded with some hamburgers better than anything we get in the East. 3 pounds meat-padding should leave space for many tubes.

CJ

Re: New Telefunken tubes
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2017, 11:35:19 PM »
if you order the Grill Masters assortment, you get free shipping And a pair of 12A7a tubes,

this is corn fed beef folks, none of that pent up alfalfa fed garbage,

and you get enough dry ice to ice down all your tubes and beer for the big game,
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so nobody else can!
Frank's Tube Page: www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/vs.html
Guitar Amps: http://bmamps.com/Tech_sch.html