Laws around frauds in the US

Hi all

First of all I am a bit reluctant to use this forum for this purpose and I know that I might stir up some feeling about it all but I feel that I can't wait anymore

The story is that I contacted Drip Electronics about the possibility to buy three (3) TB4's for some diy LA2A projects.

First of all I received answer from a Marie Cash who claimed that they produced the "best" TB4's on the market and she also claimed that Drip had the very best service as well… I thought: well, good enough for me.

I ordered 3 TB4's and paid 263 USD including shipping fees… and then it all died. I wrote to her several times and finally I got in touch with someone  named "Zoi". He shipped three TB4's… used, dirty and not functioning.

Of course I wrote back ( a bit more angry this time) and a guy named Gregory answered and said that the dude Zoi had been fired from the company and that he (Gregory) personally would make and calibrate there TB4's and ship them as soon as possible… that was on the 25th of january… a couple of days ago I wrote him again since I have not received any shipping information or nothing… and now he is just quiet… no answer at all.

I might say that I paid for the three T4B's on the 8th of december last year.


Can anyone recommend me on how to proceed in this… without having to get a ticket to the US and back to personally get my money back or at least the three T4B's?

In Sweden where I live this would be considered a fraud which is a crime… by misleading and not fulfilling the deal.

Or let me at least say that Drip Electronics seems to be a =)(&#&%€"&%/%)(/=)/  sh*t bucket for a company


Regards

/John

You may have more success applying pressure using social media.

Starting here is good, then Geekslutz, and facebook if they have a presence there.

Be the squeaky wheel that they want to quiet...

JR

Yes, that is something I have thought about but it is not reeeeeally my thing, but what can I do?  :-\

I do not know if this something that has happened to before… to somebody else so It might be a cruel thing to do? But on the other hand it does not take two weeks to send a small package over the Atlantic.


Best regards

/John

How did you pay? Buyer protection with paypal or a credit card is often your easiest recourse.  Paypal allows you to file a dispute and you are pretty much assured to get your money back if they can't prove with a tracking number you got your item.
A chargeback on a credit card is also possible if you can prove you were scammed.

I think you would need to sue them to enforce a contract.  There are laws in the USA for the type of fraud you are describing (I believe). I'm not a lawyer, but a bill of sale promising delivery should be an enforceable contract in court.

Thank you sir.

I paid via PayPal after they had sent a PayPal-invoice… the problem might be that they sent three useless pieces of crap something that Gregory didn't argue anything about so my guess is that they took a chance here… which in that case doesn't make it better really.

I have thought of just asking for the money back and order from, for example Kenetek, that I know deliver quickly and with good stuff.

Best regards

/John

To pursue recourse through the legal system could cost more than the loss.

The fact that you received partial or inferior shipments is a complication.

If they are bad actors, you would be doing the community a service by sharing your poor service experience.

If they are motivated to take care of you as a consequence, that's all good.

Of course be sure your complaints are accurate and provable.

JR 

PS: Paypal generally has a bias toward favoring customer complaints over vendors, but as you mentioned your complaint may not be cut and dry...

I recently bought some speakers person to person (not ebay) and paid with paypal. Got them, and they were damaged, long story short I opened a case in paypal describing them not as described, shipped them back with signature tracking, got a refund of my payment + shipping.  I had to pay the return shipping. So you have a near bullet proof way to address this if necessary.

If you haven't even asked for your money back, though, I think you are jumping the gun a little bit in calling it fraud and the general tone of your description. Mistakes and bad service happen in business without it being "fraud".  I understand why you are frustrated though.

I'd suggest ask for your money back & return the 3 used and dirty items (if you haven't already), and if you don't get your money back open a paypal dispute.

dmp said:

If you haven't even asked for your money back, though, I think you are jumping the gun a little bit in calling it fraud and the general tone of your description. Mistakes and bad service happen in business without it being "fraud".  I understand why you are frustrated though.

I'd suggest ask for your money back & return the 3 used and dirty items (if you haven't already), and if you don't get your money back open a paypal dispute.

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I would love to ask for my money but they do not answer my e-mails any more… maybe I could try to call them? No, it is obvious that they don't care. I mean… what serious dealer would take the risk of being accused for this type of behavior?

I used to run a small business within gardening and my policy were to never let a customer down… no matter how small the issue was… we have a saying in Sweden regarding business: It takes seven years to build a good reputation and seven days to ruin it forever.

/John

Ahh... but you ordered the TB4's.  Yeah those are troublesome to deliver. Should've gotten the T4B's. JK.
Twice i have had people buy a mic from me, use it for a month, then claim its broken and return it. Both times the mic was fine but the cost to resend it (cause i got charged for the return shipping, plus the guy just wanting his "money back" made my quandary impossible to solve other than just eating it.  Friggin Ebay.
That said Paypal is usually on the side of the buyer. Contact them.

I had Drip contact me months after i repeatedly tried them.  Same lady you described saying they had the very best T4B's
By then i had already gotten the Kenetecs which are awesome and come with a warrenty.  They (John?) were also super friendly and responded quickly.  I hope you get your money back and that's a real shame about Drip. Good luck.

Rocinante said:

Ahh... but you ordered the TB4's.  Yeah those are troublesome to deliver.

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Yes, I understand they might be delicate to ship overseas but listen to this… they came in a box… all three of them rattling like pees in a maracas… they were all three scratchy and in fact dirty like they had been stored away for a long time on a shelf or like.

I pointed this out to Gregory and as I said he never argued anything about it to send three new ones. I of course offered to send the three I got back to them but no… they did not want them.

/John

I would love to ask for my money but they do not answer my e-mails any more…

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That's bad - I hear you. Hopefully you can get your money back through paypal.

I of course offered to send the three I got back to them but no… they did not want them.

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??? strange

dmp said:

??? strange

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Yes, isn't it? I was even prepared to pay for the shipping of the three bad ones… but he (Gregory) just wrote that he would personally make three new ones and ship them as soon as possible and that is nearly three weeks ago


/John

I think Gregory is the main man at Drip.

I've dealt with them once, for T4Bs in fact, and it was slow but everything worked out. I've read other people complain that response times are slow too. This was a few years ago mind you.

I hope your experience works out. Fingers crossed it will.

Thank you sir

Interesting! I can accept longer delivery times as long as there is an explanation. That explanation is best described via en e-mail or a phone call if the parties share the same language

/John

He's infamous for dropping off radar for very long periods of time, taking down his website, removing all info relevant to old projects, etc.  I'm not aware of anyone getting fully hosed, or maybe I've forgotten. 

emrr said:

He's infamous for dropping off radar for very long periods of time, taking down his website, removing all info relevant to old projects, etc.  I'm not aware of anyone getting fully hosed, or maybe I've forgotten. 

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Well, that could imply that he might have other problems in life not directly connected to business service? What do I know.

It is however very disturbing when a supplier stop answering somewhat troublesome questions.

/John

To my knowledge:

Zoi was a shop helper that produced some assembly instructions. That must not have worked out.

I've dealt with Marie on my purchases (two Pultec PCB sets and one LA2A with slow and fast T4B). She's been with Drip for a few years now.

Greg has been slow with email responses before but has come through more times than not. However, I have seen more and more comments about lack of support from Drip on the forums. Which is disappointing.

Sounds like going to PayPal might be your best recourse. As has been pointed out, they are geared to support customers more than vendors. I would suspect Drip receives most their payments from PayPal, so they likely don't want that relationship damaged. Just tell PayPal you received non-working merchandise. And decide if you want a refund or to get the Drip T4B's.

this ^

AusTex64 said:

Sounds like going to PayPal might be your best recourse. As has been pointed out, they are geared to support customers more than vendors. I would suspect Drip receives most their payments from PayPal, so they likely don't want that relationship damaged. Just tell PayPal you received non-working merchandise. And decide if you want a refund or to get the Drip T4B's.

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Yes, at the moment it seems best to get a refund... I am not sure if I would like their stuff anymore

/John

"Hi Gregory

It is now 13 days since I last heard from you… 12days since the TB4's should have been shipped
(according to your statement above) but I have not seen any shipping information or… anything really.

So how is it going?


Best regards

/John"


This was nine days ago…