Log Cabin

ruffrecords said:

I am astounded at how large American houses are

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The average size of a house has something like doubled since 1960. Most of the time the space is too big with no thought to ergonomics. I find large and unusable spaces to be a mood killer. When you walk into houses like that you usually see them half furnished and you can see everyone uses a tiny portion of the house. Formal living room, never used. Formal dining room, very rarely used. Giant home office for no reason.

In the Adirondack Mountains the pre engineered log homes are very popular. I find them close to offensive. I think people like them because they let them think they are living like pioneers.  The pioneers used what was available in the most efficient manner possible. A pre engineered log home is about as far away from this philosophy as it gets. Inefficient in most ways that matter.

I used Thermafiber SAFB and rigid fiber board for insulation. That little propane heater was on low even when the temperature was on the low single digits Fº. A log home leaks like a sieve.

I've subscribed to Home Power magazine and am reading up on solar. I made a battery powered electric system to run lights and a ceiling fan. I charge the batteries at home now but I'm having electric brought down from the pole this summer. The run to the cabin is longer than I want to trench (over 500ft.) so I'll charge the batteries down the hill in another  shed.

Wow 8020 for holding the heaters.
8020 is nice stuff.

Gus said:

Wow 8020 for holding the heaters.
8020 is nice stuff.

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Yep. I used it to build the sleeping loft to. That's what's above the table. I also used it to build a tent platform and a half finished shed. The shed is being repurposed as a platform for another area and a stand for the generator that runs the well pump.

It's expensive but I've already made my money back by not having to scrap the half built shed and dispose of it. Then buy more materials to make what I need now. I figured it out and besides dis assembly with a hex key i only need to make three cuts. Easy peasy.

> connect to the house central heating

I was thinking on that. Sadly I think in R-factor, which is BTU and feet (of a English king), pounds, and degree F. None of these very-British measures are used in England today.

The walls, without stuffing, are about R-5. Glass fuzz stuffing could make it R-8. This is half of the minimum in modern US homes (3.5" of fuzz makes nominal R-13). The roof appears to be inch boards, so R-1. The floor is concrete so less than R-1 to the ground, which will warm if heated 24/7, but will cool to weather average if heat is occasional.

I'll say it is 12'x8'. 280 sf of walls, 100sf of roof or floor.

Divide sf by R to get an equivalent square-foot at R-1 (reference).
280sf/5 = 56
100sf/1 = 100
100sf/1 = 100

The walls are the least of the loss. Carpet over padding, and 2" foam between the rafters, would get floor loss to 50sf and ceiling loss to 10sf. Total 120 square feet of loss re:R-1.

The magic of R is that (sf/R)*T (temperature rise) gives BTU. Which now means nothing in the country which invented the BTU, but is how we do it here.

How cold will it get? Wikipedia lacks data for Norfolk but Cambridge is close. In my degrees F, he has average 45 F Dec-Feb. Actually in my Maine workshop, 45 is workable (specially when it is 20F/-7C outside at noon). Englishmen may call 60 F a cosy temperature. So 15 deg F rise with 120sf of loss is 1,800 BTU. This is only a 600 Watt heater. Indeed a 16-channel tube console could be the main heat. If he wants 70F, 3,000BTU. Here the next step would be a 5,000 BTU gas heater, which could be bottle-gas for occasional use (safety codes permitting).

He will have nights to 1F/-17C. To hold 60F inside is 7,200BTU or 2,400 Watts. A large electric fire, and a large electric bill to do that Jan-Feb.

If, as I understand, english homes heat with electric hot water, it makes no sense to run water pipes out through the cold lawn; a 10 Amp electric feed is much cheaper and somewhat more efficient. If he gets gas or oil much cheaper than electric, and heats many hours a year, then central heat loops may make sense. (Disuse in freezing weather invites trouble.)

Me, I'd have built a heated workshop ON the house, so a hot-air duct could be brought right in. But Maine is colder longer. And his neighborhood may have lot restrictions/traditions which ban the usual Maine lean-to shed but tolerate a hoe-shed behind the garden.

My Log Cabin is fully insulated. 2 inches of Rockwool in the walls and polystyrene in the floor and the reflective version in the ceiling. In the current heat wave it seems equally good at keeping the heat out.

In the winter I am sure the occasional use of a simple 1KW fan heater will be more than enough to keep it cosy.

Cheers

Ian

Nice Ian,

Was going to ask about insulation, because I didn't see it added.
We just moved, and one thing that was soon obvious is that we have too little room in our garage for all the bikes and other stuff (part of the garage was converted to a home office, which was the reason for buying this house). So I am looking for a shed in the garden. I am a bit particular in how it looks, and it looks as if prefab is not an option (or use it as a base and customise it) I'd like big windows in there, and a proper door, maybe  a wall inside to separate the bike storage from a workbench.
I think making it from scratch is a lot of work (if done by me alone) but then again, there's that youtube clip by Colin Furze  (https://youtu.be/LP67MAoihZk) which makes me think it is doable.

But yours looks very nice ian, are you going to finish it on the outside, or is that lumber already treated?

Jarno said:

I am a bit particular in how it looks, and it looks as if prefab is not an option (or use it as a base and customise it) I'd like big windows in there, and a proper door,

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My shed is on a crushed stone pad. I asked about a 'real door', a casement door. They said it wouldn't open in the winter. I would have had to put in a concrete pad like Ian if I wanted a casement door. I payed about $2500 for my shed. Ian's looks more expensive, and nicer.

Gold said:

My shed is on a crushed stone pad. I asked about a 'real door', a casement door. They said it wouldn't open in the winter. I would have had to put in a concrete pad like Ian if I wanted a casement door. I payed about $2500 for my shed. Ian's looks more expensive, and nicer.

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Yes mine is a bit more expensive. The base price is £4500 but this is a twin skin so its like a shed inside a shed and it comes with double glazed windows and doors. The doors even have adjustments so you can make sure they shut properly at all times of the year. I added floor, wall and roof insulation and opted for expensive granular steel roof tiles because they have a 25 year life (as my Dad would have said they'll see me out!) all of which took the price up to £6,000. Fortunately we have downsized brom a 5 bed three story house to a two bed bungalow so we had a bit of cash to spare.

Cheers

Ian

> polystyrene in the floor

Wise move. Concrete on ground is hard to bring away from ground temperature. My neighbor burns wood 12 hours/day in his garage and in January the slab is toasty from all the heat stored under it. My garage sits unheated. If I have to work in there, I can run a 20,000BTU (say 6KW) pellet stove *and* a 5KW electric fan-heat, get some air toasty, but the slab stays bone-chilling cold and the air will cool quickly if I don't keep shoveling the pellets/electrons in my heaters.

> it wouldn't open in the winter.

My mud-room/entry is on piers 3 feet down. Each winter I have to shave the door a bit, because the most exposed post frost-heaves and racks the framing.

> we have downsized ... so we had a bit of cash to spare.

Nice when/if you reach that point. For decades I sweated mortgage and tax in a high-cost state. The flip side was a large number when we sold it, which bought a shack in a low-cost state AND the bank tellers are very friendly because we hold a fairly large (for this area) balance. (Enough to buy the shack above and tear off the worst parts.)

PRR said:

Nice when/if you reach that point. For decades I sweated mortgage and tax in a high-cost state. The flip side was a large number when we sold it, which bought a shack in a low-cost state AND the bank tellers are very friendly because we hold a fairly large (for this area) balance. (Enough to buy the shack above and tear off the worst parts.)

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Much the same here. We used to live in Cambridgeshire, now often referred to as Silicon Fen, with a mega mortgage. When I retired we moved to Norfolk and could easily afford to cash buy a large old converted foundry (about 4000 sf in total). Then we downsized to a 5 bed three story and pocketed some cash. Then we did it again when we moved here.

The downside is all us outsiders moving in to retire by the coast, or simply buying holiday homes, are pushing up house prices. In many areas it is hard for local first time buyers to get on the property ladder. There is one small group of villages called the Burnhams, in one of which Nelson was born, that has so many rich Londoners living there that it is called Little Chelsea.

Cheers

Ian

PRR said:

oncrete on ground is hard to bring away from ground temperature. My neighbor burns wood 12 hours/day in his garage and in January the slab is toasty from all the heat stored under it.

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There is an article in Home Power that looks at a passive solar house. Passive solar means the house is heated by available sunlight. No PV panels for heating. It's common to use an oversized concrete slab as a passive heat sink and heat radiator. It stores sunlight energy during sunlight hours and radiates the stored heat when there is no sunlight.

I'm in the process of designing/building a 10x12 shed, and would be interested to hear from Ian and other about how to keep it cool/warm.  Here in the Bay Area in California, we swing an enormous temperature range of about 50F in the Winter to an average of about 85F in the summer, so it's less a consideration of making it comfortable, but in trying to keep it consistent.

1) Raised foundation built with 2x10 joists, with R-30 encapsulated insulation in-between the joists and a vapor barrier on the floor.
2) 3/4" tongue and groove plywood on the floor
3) 2x6" framing in the walls, with  closed-cell 2-part spray foam in the walls and ceiling (which provides air and moisture barrier as well) - apparently rated at R6 per inch, should provide R30-R36 in the walls and ceilings
4) QuietRock drywall on the walls

If the roof is black asphalt tiles I'd put a reflective layer inside. Like a foil faced insulation. I know it makes a big difference in interior heat buildup.

I've been very happy with my Big Buddy propane heater. You can use 1lb propane bottles that fit in the unit or use an external tank. A BBQ 20lb tank lasted almost a week in temperatures between 0ºF and 20ºF. A $12 refill.

We are currently enjoying a heat wave and I have found the cabin to remain surprisingly cool even though it is in direct sunlight most of the day. I have a feeling the reflective insulation in the roof has a lot to do with it. My wife also has a small but uninsulated shed and that gets considerably warmer than the cabin even though it is in a shadier spot.

Cheers

Ian

> all us outsiders moving in to retire by the coast, or simply buying holiday homes, are pushing up house prices.

I hope so!

Here's some 'tiny house' snake oil from our friends in Silicon Valley:

https://boxouse.com/

$30,000 for the basic shipping-container-and-plywood model.

I am also looking for inspiration for a name for my cabin. In our family we often name inanimate objects, especially cars (automobiles) We had a string of Renaults years ago that were called Rene, Carmen and Edith. We also had a Mini called Monty. We currently have a Nissan called Prudence and a Jaguar called Gus.

So for the log cabin I have been thinking along the lines of Jabba (the hut) Mahutma (Ghandi).

Any suggestions??

Cheers

Ian

home boy ? , Homey? Homer...?

JR

JohnRoberts said:

home boy ? , Homey? Homer...?

JR

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Homer I like. Over here, if you are in work and surreptitiously bring in a personal project to work on, it is called doing a 'homer'. Seems rather appropriate.

Cheers

Ian