MEQ-5 sensitive to magnetic fields

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saint gillis

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
883
Location
Brussels - Belgium
Hi, I built some time ago a pair of combos containing each an EQP-1A and an MEQ-5 in a 2 units rack.

The signal goes : 600ohms input transformer > EQP-1A passive circuit > 990C OP AMP stage > MEQ-5 passive circuit > 990C OP AMP stage > Line output transformer
+ a system of relays to be able to use booth at the same time or only one of each EQs.

I realised that on booth units I had a noticeable amount of hum but only on the MEQ-5 circuit, when I would raise one of the 3 pots, the hum would appear like filtered at a low or medium or higher frequency. So I checked my wiring, my PCB, everything looked quite correct, I mean no ground loops, no stupid or illogical wiring, no floating PSU ground.

  I remember the best location I'd found for the PSU toroidal transformer was at the back right corner of the rack, screwed vertically. Then I removed the transformer and tried to move it and listening to the hum at the same time (I plugged the EQ in a mic preamp with max gain and listened to the noise), depending on the location of the transformer the hum was higher or lower when raising one of the 3 pots, I mean on some PSU transformer positions the hum was very loud when raising the left pot and almost absent on the right pot, and for instance on another position it would be very loud when raising the center pot and almost absent when raising the left pot.. etc.
  On one of the units I found a good compromise when I made a rotation of the toroidal transformer until I found the perfect spot where none of the pots brought any hum.  On the other unit I didn't find any good spot, so I used a smaller toroidal transformer (the first was 40 or 50VA, then I used maybe something like 10VA, there are only a few op amps, leds and never more than 1 relay at the same time so it was ok) and with this smaller transformer I managed to find a good spot without hum on any of the 3 pots.

  Here's the MEQ-5 circuit : http://www.gyraf.dk/gy_pd/pultec/meq5.gif

  I don't have any hum on the EQP-1A circuits. So is the MEQ-5 circuit especially sensitive to magnetic fields? or is there a special trick to make it work more comfortably?
 
isolate the problem, short out the filter section with a jump lead,

the Meq is single ended so less hum cancel, if no solution is found, maybe convert MEQ to push pull circuit, what a pain, but it might work,
 
Is the MEQ closer to the toroid than the EQP? 

Is the toroid shielded?

Are the MEQ inductors shielded? 

Try putting a steel "wall" between PSU and audio circuits, or move the PSU to an external box.

In any case, pics and maybe a wiring diagram showing your grounding would help.
 
  Hey the toroid and the inductors are not shielded.
I shielded them with mu-metal sheets, it didn't change anything.

Each 3 sections of the filter picks up hum!

CJ said:
the Meq is single ended so less hum cancel, if no solution is found, maybe convert MEQ to push pull circuit, what a pain, but it might work,

That's interesting CJ, I may not do it for these units, but could be a good plan for further pieces of gear, could you develop this a bit?
 
Why to not use the same amp for both units ?...keeping the eqp1a amp with filters and inductors should work  normaly no ?.
 
hugo said:
Why to not use the same amp for both units ?...keeping the eqp1a amp with filters and inductors should work  normaly no ?.
Your question is a bit off topic, but there is a switch allowing to use only the EQP1A filter, or only MEQ5, or both, so it was easier with each filter getting its unity gain amplifier,. I don't know how would react in term of noise the 2 passive filters one after the other, but you could have something like 60db of loss..
 
The magnetic field from a toroid is not symmetrical (because the windings inside stop and start), so you may try rotating the toroid after it's best location is found for lower hum.

JR
 
JohnRoberts said:
The magnetic field from a toroid is not symmetrical (because the windings inside stop and start), so you may try rotating the toroid after it's best location is found for lower hum.

JR

Yes indeed John I noticed that, that's exactly what I did, maybe I didn't explained it clearly enough in my first post..

By the way the filter sections of the MEQ-5 are quite similar to the Hi-Boost of the EQP-1A :

meq5.gif


268532d1324562998-pultec-schematic-discrepancies-original_pultech_schem.gif


So I don't really understand why the MEQ-5 is so sensitive compared to the EQP-1A which doesn't pickup anything from the PSU transformer...

I have to say that I used an RM8 inductor for the EQP-1A
RM8-Spule-312mh-155mh-78mh-39mh-26mh.jpg
and some DA-EF inductors for the MEQ-5
MEQ-5-Spulen-Set-EF.jpg
 
Inductors work with magnetic fields, so can pick up stray magnetic noise.

The first inductors look like they may be shielded, the second ones are open frame... Maybe try shielding the open frame inductors with some mu metal? 

Sorry I am mostly guessing... I never used an inductor to make an audio filter design (caps are so much cheaper, and I'm cheap).

JR
 
saint gillis said:
Yes indeed John I noticed that, that's exactly what I did, maybe I didn't explained it clearly enough in my first post..

By the way the filter sections of the MEQ-5 are quite similar to the Hi-Boost of the EQP-1A :

meq5.gif


268532d1324562998-pultec-schematic-discrepancies-original_pultech_schem.gif


So I don't really understand why the MEQ-5 is so sensitive compared to the EQP-1A which doesn't pickup anything from the PSU transformer...

I have to say that I used an RM8 inductor for the EQP-1A
RM8-Spule-312mh-155mh-78mh-39mh-26mh.jpg
and some DA-EF inductors for the MEQ-5
MEQ-5-Spulen-Set-EF.jpg

Lol...Don-audio ?..really ? Will never recommend this.. I think it is Chinese cheap articles, branded like luxury with 3 times the real price. Will never order here again.
 
hugo said:
Lol...Don-audio ?..really ? Will never recommend this.. I think it is Chinese cheap articles, branded like luxury with 3 times the real price. Will never order here again.

Evidence for this remark?

Cheers

Ian
 
I do not want to offense anybody, but DIY is a community thing and when you make profit on this, you should stay honest or accept bad feedbacks.

Just two links :

http://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/Davies-Molding/1400-W/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuiwDVLTMm01bmPscXevYdScJ0U%252bRzFXyI%3d
VS
https://www.don-audio.com/Black-Pointer-Knob-EQP-1A-ON-OFF_1

https://www.don-audio.com/LA-2A-UREI-Bakelite-Knob
VS
http://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/Davies-Molding/1919AE/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuiwDVLTMm01TwsEK17ZmQPIvd113leuxQ%3d

Same brand, same ref. And I assume he orders big quantities..

BUT I AGREE FOR MUNDORF, ELMA, EDCOR, THEY ARE THE BEST SOURCE IN EU.

REGARDING INDUCTORS : I tried daef rm8 . I have more accurate results and less issues with Carnhills. Vintagewindings make also good products but some resonnance on very high freq.  Migma could be a good option, I do not know.
For Meq-5, Don-audio has got a 90eu set. Carnhill is about 30eu, and shows better results. Sowter is also very good for eqp1 inductors. IMO
I SPEAK ONLY ABOUT REAL PULTECS DESIGN, G-pultec is a different situation.

That is why I was joking a little bit on my previous post, regarding Don-audio. Apologize for bringing negativity on this post. I ordered for more than 5K on this website, and will continue to order when it is my only source, but I always look for other sources because of price. To have a nice looking website is not sufficient, even when you are just few retailers for audio DIY.
Cheers!




 
No sorry, I only have this pic of the psu transformer :
transfo.jpg


And here's my board, sorry it's messy but it can give you an idea of the position of the inductors and caps :
Dual_pultec_5-1.jpg
 

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