cat 5 / 6 for mic patchbay

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galoz

New member
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
2
Hi,
due to the cons of a bantam, trs patchbay for mic signal specially with phantom power and ribbon mics, etc
i was wondering if i could use a standard cat5 / 6 patch panel for this purpose...
I would have to make the typical connection always with a patch cable (could be standard cat5 or common audio cable with rj45) but would still be much cheaper, easy and cheaper..

so what do you think?
 
galoz said:
Hi,
due to the cons of a bantam, trs patchbay for mic signal specially with phantom power and ribbon mics, etc
i was wondering if i could use a standard cat5 / 6 patch panel for this purpose...
I would have to make the typical connection always with a patch cable (could be standard cat5 or common audio cable with rj45) but would still be much cheaper, easy and cheaper..

so what do you think?
Click to expand...
I don't see any reasons for not doing it. Cat5/6 cable has electrical characteristics pretty similar to typical mic cable. Just make sure you don't use the unshielded type.
Powersoft amps use 2 pairs of Cat5 cable for transmitting line level audio over lengths of several hundred meters, whilst Ethernet communication is established on two other pairs. Indeed, that doesn't work well with microphone levels, but when there is no ethernet, it is clean as a standard mic cable.
 
The only problem I'm seeing is how you achieve normalization on  standard cat5 / 6 patch panel ?
because with Bantam patchbays or jack patchbays thats quite easy
 
I'm not sure I understand. Isn't the point of a patchbay so that you can plug anything into anything else? If you use the RJ45 connector you're committed to patching things in groups of 4.
 
Whoops said:
The only problem I'm seeing is how you achieve normalization on  standard cat5 / 6 patch panel ?
because with Bantam patchbays or jack patchbays thats quite easy
Click to expand...
Normalization of mic patchbays is not a priority. Putting microphones and mic inputs on jack/GPO/Bantam patchbays is a risk. One has to choose between practicality and safety.
There are not many solutions that obey all constraints;  the Ghielmetti solution is the only one I know that does.
http://www.ghielmetti.ch/index.php?nav=19,33,59,103&Category=ASF-Econom-24-channels
Not the cheapest solution in the world! I've seen them only in broadcast.
 
squarewave said:
I'm not sure I understand. Isn't the point of a patchbay so that you can plug anything into anything else?
Click to expand...
Not really for microphones. In particular you don't want to connect your CD player to a microphone input with P48 on. that's a good enough reason for using different connectors than the rest of the patchbay.


If you use the RJ45 connector you're committed to patching things in groups of 4.
Click to expand...
You can use only one pair if you want. These cables are so cheap it doesn't really count.
 
squarewave said:
I'm not sure I understand. Isn't the point of a patchbay so that you can plug anything into anything else? If you use the RJ45 connector you're committed to patching things in groups of 4.
Click to expand...

I don't know if I understand your doubt.

Are you familiar with the concept of normalization in a patchbay?

With normalization in a patchbay a studio can run without any cable connected to the patchbay, you can break the connection when you insert a cable.
Thats what I was talking about, I like your idea but I just don't know how you could achieve normalization

 
Whoops said:
Are you familiar with the concept of normalization in a patchbay?
Click to expand...
After 30 years designing studio and broadcast equipment, that would be a pity if I was not familiar with the concept.


With normalization in a patchbay a studio can run without any cable connected to the patchbay, you can break the connection when you insert a cable.
Click to expand...
Yes, and different people have different views on the subject, that is why there are normalled patchbays and half-normalled patchbays.


I like your idea but I just don't know how you could achieve normalization
Click to expand...
Do you mean the Ghielmetti system?
Check this
http://www.ghielmetti.ch/docs/PDF/patch_cords_normalling_pins-e.pdf
 
abbey road d enfer said:
There are not many solutions that obey all constraints;  the Ghielmetti solution is the only one I know that does.
Click to expand...

Could you please elaborate more on this? I have a lot of experience with bantam patch bays and some with ghielmetties and only thing I found where the ghielmetti is better is non-shorting a signal to the ground during patching. Everything else is PITA. Especially the lost and found game with normalling plugs.
 
moamps said:
Could you please elaborate more on this? I have a lot of experience with bantam patch bays and some with ghielmetties and only thing I found where the ghielmetti is better is non-shorting a signal to the ground during patching.
Click to expand...
Exactly!


Everything else is PITA. Especially the lost and found game with normalling plugs.
Click to expand...
It's a minor embarassment, but it's the price to pay for having a patchbay dedicated to microphones only and does not take too much space. It's an expensive solution, though. For this very reason, I chose an XLR patchbay, which has the distinct advantage of allowing direct connection of a microphone in the control room using standard mic cables. Apart from that, it takes a lot of space and patching is also a PITA because it's congested with patch cables.
 
Thank you guys for opening my eyes to this idea!
I've never heard of using CAT cables for mic signals, but now I've googled it and it seems like a cool option!

And I'm just about to rebuild my studio cabling since I bought new console.
I have 28 mic inputs  (I'll use only 24) on the console but I have two rooms with 19 channels on multicore. Now I'm thinking of connecting multicore cables from both rooms to one CAT patch panel and running short CAT cables to another patch panel that connects to console's mic inputs and to other preamps. Any opinions on that? Would that work?
That would be waaaay cheaper (and smaller!) than custom panel with around 60 to 80 regular xlr connectors!
Tell me it is not nuts and I'll be happiest cable solderer around!

:)

Luka
 
shot said:
Thank you guys for opening my eyes to this idea!
I've never heard of using CAT cables for mic signals, but now I've googled it and it seems like a cool option!

And I'm just about to rebuild my studio cabling since I bought new console.
I have 28 mic inputs  (I'll use only 24) on the console but I have two rooms with 19 channels on multicore. Now I'm thinking of connecting multicore cables from both rooms to one CAT patch panel and running short CAT cables to another patch panel that connects to console's mic inputs and to other preamps. Any opinions on that? Would that work?
That would be waaaay cheaper (and smaller!) than custom panel with around 60 to 80 regular xlr connectors!
Tell me it is not nuts and I'll be happiest cable solderer around!

:)

Luka
Click to expand...
I would probably do that if I had to wire a studio. Today, people are reluctant to using CAT5/6 cabling for audio signals, just because they are not used to it, but remember when Tascam innovated in using DB25 connectors for audio connections; today it's become a standard...
 
shot said:
... Any opinions on that? Would that work?.... I'll be happiest cable solderer around!
Click to expand...

I wouldn't  do that. One reason is that most probably your multicore cable isn't intended to be crimped into the  CAT terminal blocks.
 
moamps said:
I wouldn't  do that. One reason is that most probably your multicore cable isn't intended to be crimped into the  CAT terminal blocks.
Click to expand...
Indeed, crimping multicore cable to RJ45 plugs is awkward, but this is not what you want. You want to connect the multicore cable to the patchpanel, which is not too difficult on patchbays that are not of the feed-through type.
For those of the feed-through type, where you actually need to connect the multicore cable to RJ45 plugs, you need a gobo, such as a tagboard (terminal strip).
In some cases it is also possible to use an adapter such as this one
http://www.futurlec.com/Computer_Adapters.shtml
In fact, if I had to do it, I would make the adapters from a PC mount RJ45 and Phoenix (Euroblock) 3 point connectors.
 
Shielded CAT5 or 6 has an overall shield but not shielded pairs. How would crosstalk be  compared to shielded pairs?
 
Gold said:
Shielded CAT5 or 6 has an overall shield but not shielded pairs. How would crosstalk be  compared to shielded pairs?
Click to expand...
There would be no x-talk since only one pair would be used. CTA5/6 wire would be used for patchords only.
Now CAT5/6 cable is in daily use in sound reinforcement situations. Provided the sources are low-impedance and connections are properly balanced, x-talk is not a significant issue.
 
CAT5/6 cables without further electronics are used as small, leightweight multicore (4ch) solutions, ask google for 'instasnake'.

I DIY'd some with Ethercon connectors. These work  great. No problems with crosstalk.
 

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