Service issue ,legal opinion required

sahib said:

This is correct.

This is also why the retailers  always try to sell you extended warranty here in the UK.

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Although many retailers are no offering 2 year guarantees here in the UK when the statutory minimum is 1 year. To complicate it further, most manufacturers  will offer you a two year or even a 5 year warranty if you register your product with them ( mostly applies to white goods).

Cheers

ian

Tubetec said:

Ahh well 15 good years isnt so bad ,
Not many jobs here relating to electronics nowadays, the vast majority of its gone to the far east ,except for a few highend industrial/ military specialist places,could have got work in one of them too ,but didnt really fancy the politics of making tank and attack helicopter parts .

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I was working on a US Navy rescue submarine program when I was drafted. After I returned they put me in a group designing inertial navigation for missiles. I quit that job within a few months.  I found gainful employment in audio electronics, while a couple time I had to start my own business to do that.

Did a bit of a search on the classic 30 alright ,similar stories to my experiences with them ,win some loose some I guess.
Cheers.

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here is a thread about adding screen resistors to stabilize classic 30  https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=64636.msg818592#msg818592

My search here mainly turned up you and me, 

JR

Cheers for that John,
I think I'd chance working on the classic 30 again on the strength of it,
A few extra components and some time ,its a lot better than having to tell a customer their amp is gonzo'd and watching their heart sink.

My dad was Navy  ,so as a boy I got the grand tour of the ships and bases ,even got a short trip up the harbour one time ,and got to visit loads of foreign ships in port here ,very exciting for me a a young lad . I think I'd asked enough akward questions to know the military wasnt the life for me by the time I had hairs on my chin .

Whats the difference between a ship and a prison, you cant sink a prison.ahah

Got the schematic for the out of production acoustic amp from the guy today and Im fairly certain he'll furnish the parts specs on the other too .And the the crowd who sold me the cooker have agreed to try and organise a grill switch with a higher current rating ,they cover the cost ,even though the warranty is just out
Thanks again,

Tubetec said:

Got the schematic for the out of production acoustic amp from the guy today and Im fairly certain he'll furnish the parts specs on the other too .And the the crowd who sold me the cooker have agreed to try and organise a grill switch with a higher current rating ,they cover the cost ,even though the warranty is just out

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Sounds like you had a good day all around.

About the power switch, I have seen some that were melted, but the switch wasn't the cause. It was sloppy-fitting connections that was the source of the heat. Sometimes loose screws, sometimes wimpy Fastons/StaCons/ push-on female spade connectors, that also may have been improperly crimped.

On the left, a relay where the StaCon was not properly crimped, on the right, two pairs of connectors that were in two power supplies for a well-known English console. Both had the same problem, although one hadn't quite failed yet. These were the DC side of a 30 amp bridge, in both cases, the bridge was still fine.

This board uses 11.6 amps per rail, IMO, this is simply not a place for StaCons. They are all soldered now, with new bridges, just in case.

Gene

Amendment to above: Screws need to be tightened well past snug, or this happens. A high quality Edison plug, but not tightened well enough. The results are molten acrylic, all black and bubbly.

Gene

Mmmmm I love the smell of burning plastic in the morning ,ahah

Thats a good point actually Gene, the heat seems to be concentrated right around the spade connector ,not the actual switch contact itself .They send out a guy Thursday ,I'll make sure he fits a new fast-on or maybe even solders direct to the terminal.
It was a very productive day for me yesterday ,aside from getting satisfaction on the two issues mentioned ,I lined up some new potential work contacts also.

I find in situations where  companies are being akward ,a polite but firmly worded email works wonders ,a wee mention of small claims court ,and negative press followed a concillitory ,I hope we can find a satisfactory solution usually puts the skids under em .Failing that a visit to a show room or sales outlet at a busy time and some mild sabre rattling and you'll  crack even the tough nuts .
Thank you all for your contributions ,

Tubetec said:

Mmmmm I love the smell of burning plastic in the morning ,ahah

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I don't

Thats a good point actually Gene, the heat seems to be concentrated right around the spade connector ,not the actual switch contact itself .They send out a guy Thursday ,I'll make sure he fits a new fast-on or maybe even solders direct to the terminal.

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within the last couple years I replaced a few flaky 50 yo service outlets. One was getting noticeably warm/hot from an auxiliary heater plugged into it.  I actually noticed that the plug was hot after I unplugged it.

It was a very productive day for me yesterday ,aside from getting satisfaction on the two issues mentioned ,I lined up some new potential work contacts also.

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a good thing

I find in situations where  companies are being akward ,a polite but firmly worded email works wonders ,a wee mention of small claims court ,and negative press followed a concillitory ,I hope we can find a satisfactory solution usually puts the skids under em .Failing that a visit to a show room or sales outlet at a busy time and some mild sabre rattling and you'll  crack even the tough nuts .
Thank you all for your contributions ,

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You ASSume the company you are threatening is unsophisticated about legal recourse. At Peavey Hartley had a full time lawyer on retainer and kept him busy defending nuisance actions. When the first thing a customers says is lawsuit it is often an indication he is not serious.

I had one guy threaten me over patent infringement and I pretty much responded his patent was BS (it was).  Another friend of mine had his business shut down by a similar patent threat so YMMV.

One time I went after a scumbag businessman who was cheating me over some royalties he owed me. I was angry so I hired a lawyer, paid him straight time, and even authorized him to file suit (only a couple hundred dollars to file the paperwork). When the sleaze-bag business type tried to weasel out telling my lawyer he wouldn't get much from a contingency based lawsuit, my lawyer shared that I was paying him straight time and had already authorized him to file suit.  My lawyer said he heard the guy's asshole pucker up over the phone and he settled on the spot for all that I was asking (a few $k). Of course my lawyer being a lawyer tried to finagle a bigger payday for his one phone call job, but i reminded him what straight time means, and treated him to  a good celebration dinner.  8)

JR

Ahahah ,
that was funny ,sounded like the guy needed a change of underpants after your lawyer chewed him up and spat him out

Tubetec said:

Ahahah ,
that was funny ,sounded like the guy needed a change of underpants after your lawyer chewed him up and spat him out

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In hindsight I was apparently not the only vendor he was cheating... If my lawsuit was filed, all the others he was stringing along would know and sue him too.  I wasn't clever, just angry, but it worked for me.  I'm sure the last vendor to figure it all out didn't get paid 100% like I did...  8) 

BTW after that drama he had the balls to ask me to do more design work, and I declined gracefully (by hanging up on him).  ;D

JR

Damn thats cheeky ,
'Neck like a jockeys bollocks' is my prefered term for those kind of bridge burners.

ruffrecords said:

Although many retailers are no offering 2 year guarantees here in the UK when the statutory minimum is 1 year.

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I don't think that's strictly the case as the statutory 2 year period is a EU thing that can override the 1 year period that was the UK norm.
But retailers may often claim a 1 year period either through staff ignorance or just trying to avoid liability.
To complicate things further there is a concept of 'reasonable expectation' that depends on the type and cost of something and can require a legal judgement / precedent.
The danger is that the different legal aspects can 'get in the way' of each other. eg denying a claim under 'reasonable expectation' by pointing to the 2 year statutory EU ruling.

Interesting / Informative article in The Guardian a few years ago (I don't have a link sorry) but part of it involved someone going to electrical retailers with 'dummy' complaints. Generally the shop floor response was to deny any liability followed by having to go up through various levels of management before getting an acknowledgement that the claim was valid or at least worthy of consideration.

All this applies to consumer retail products - not 'Business Sales'.
Raises interesting question of whether eg a guitar amplifier is a retail or busines sale for these purposes esp if it is used for paid work...

kambo said:

btw, would u ever give away ur patented  design documents, that easy !

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I don't think the OP said that there are any patents involved ?
Of course the manufacturer may still seek to protect the IP in the product.
In fact, it might be easier to get the information if there were a patent as the patent documents might well include the information.
It's a reason why some people opt not to take out patents but obscure the design in other ways.
It costs as well of course

kambo said:

you said it your self ! but they dont know that!
may be if u write them again, with your history of repairing etc they may soften a bit!

btw, would u ever give away ur patented  design documents, that easy !

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In fact the deal to get a patent issued is that you publish the "preferred embodiment" (best way). In fact few actually do, publishing a design that works but is rarely cost effective.

i would check with  local lawyer specialized in patent/ industrial etc..
they usually dont charge u anything for a simple question!

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Extended warranties are generally a cash cow, add-on sale for retailers. Most products that fail will do so within the warranty period (infant failures).

JR

I did hifi sales for a while myself , the company tried to incentivize the selling of extended care warranties by offering us high comissions on them . 'Money for nothing' was the catch phrase the manager used to bounce around .The other thing that irked me was ,and I guess this is universal in the sales game,but the highest margins and best comission was on the poorest quality items.
A bit like that film Glen Garry, Glen Ross ,a classic by the way and well worth a watch, the most unscrupulious and cut throat sales men got to the top of the list . First prize ,a Cadilac eldorado ,second prize ,a set of steak knives , third prize ,your fired .

Did a couple of years in that game ,then packed my trunk and said goodbye to the circus.

Tubetec said:

I did hifi sales for a while myself , the company tried to incentivize the selling of extended care warranties by offering us high comissions on them . 'Money for nothing' was the catch phrase the manager used to bounce around .The other thing that irked me was ,and I guess this is universal in the sales game,but the highest margins and best comission was on the poorest quality items.
A bit like that film Glen Garry, Glen Ross ,a classic by the way and well worth a watch, the most unscrupulious and cut throat sales men got to the top of the list . First prize ,a Cadilac eldorado ,second prize ,a set of steak knives , third prize ,your fired .

Did a couple of years in that game ,then packed my trunk and said goodbye to the circus.

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In MI retail, reps and manufacturers were known to "spiff" profitable (or slow moving) products to help encourage sales with some cash money on the barrel head.

JR 

One time our director did a deal on a load of b-Stock high end Marantz gear , the stuff had been back to Philips and serviced , they tried to get us to move it on at full whack new prices with 'spivs' or cash incentives to the sales team , one of the customers who the store manager had sold a big amp too returned and showed us slightly damaged star head screws and marks on the case work ,there was war and we lost the respect of a really genuine guy and a good customer ,glad Im out of that game now.

Anyhow the cooker service guy called today ,fitted a new uprated switch made of bakelite, and with heavier duty contacts, turns out theres a small issue with the thermostat control also , so once he gets that part he'll come back and fit it ,no fee, no call out charge, and parts supplied under warranty too . All good again .