Focusrite RED 3 Clones??

Has anyone attempted to clone a RED 3? Or, is there anything out there that is geared to be of the same flavor?

I was really hoping there was a kit out there I'm not aware of I can buy.

Thanks!

Red 3 is still on the market. 
EDIT: my mistake, i looked up red net 3 not the actual red 3... the statement below still remains true though.  Red 3s are still available on the used market (vintage king, evil bay, etc.) Perhaps look into other VCA compressors that are available as kits.


Usually clones come out after things are no longer available commercially.  (patents, copyrights, IP, etc.)
Red1 is still on the market as well in 500 series which is not horribly expensive compared to what it might cost as a kit anyway.

sr1200 said:

  Red 3s are still available on the used market (vintage king, evil bay, etc.)

Click to expand...

Yes of course, the same as everything else that is cloned around here,  it's also available in the used market

JeromeMason said:

Has anyone attempted to clone a RED 3? Or, is there anything out there that is geared to be of the same flavor?

I was really hoping there was a kit out there I'm not aware of I can buy.

Thanks!

Click to expand...

If you want to have a red3 clone, get the schematics, study the components, draw some prototype pcb's and start a project.
That's how project starts around here

If you are looking for the easy way and buy kits, then there's a lot of options for compressor kits, in the white market and also in the web.

I dont remember ever seeing any focusrite stuff diyed, maybe there was something somewhere on the ISA stuff, but I dont remember any project

Whoops said:

If you want to have a red3 clone, get the schematics, study the components, draw some prototype pcb's and start a project.
That's how project starts around here

If you are looking for the easy way and buy kits, then there's a lot of options for compressor kits, in the white market and also in the web.

I dont remember ever seeing any focusrite stuff diyed, maybe there was something somewhere on the ISA stuff, but I dont remember any project

Click to expand...

If I had the schematic I'd already have that baby drawn up and printed, stuffed and on my buss!

Problem is that it seems that is a really tough one to get. I think only one company handles Focusrites repairs, so it's likely they along with the company are the only ones to have the schematic. If anyone else has it I'm sure they are not going to post it.

My idea was to go with a GSSL and put some Lundahls on the inputs. That's what the original Red 3 had, Lundahls on the inputs. The new one's are pure SS and they do sound different, the transformer version is much much better. I think a project could be born from this if someone that had one gave us very detailed pictures inside to see kind of what's going on. I do believe it's a discrete compressor, so thats where it will sound different than a GSSL the most IMO. However, with the new OPA16XX line of chips I believe the GSSL with input TX's and some modding could get close.

The big thing about the Red 3 is how it maintains it's openness and depth when pushed hard in dense mixes. To me the SSL gets squashy and a narrow when pushed, plus the compression is definitely noticeable when it's driven hard. The Red 3 is not that way, and that's why they're coveted pieces of gear.

There are some really smart folks on here that if had a unit could run some test's and measurements and come up with a compressor very similar.

Until then, I believe I'm going to build myself a PYE buss compressor and see what can be modded or adjusted to keep itself open when pushed. It may already sound that way, but I've not heard the PYE on a mix buss yet but I've heard very good things from cats I trust on the PYE being very open and detailed when pushed. Maybe someone will see this that's one of those really smart guys and embark on a build that hasn't been done yet! Please shout from the rooftops when/if you do!

Jerome

Whoops said:

Yes of course, the same as everything else that is cloned around here,  it's also available in the used market

Click to expand...

Sorry should have said "READILY AVAILABLE" on the used market. 

JeromeMason said:

My idea was to go with a GSSL and put some Lundahls on the inputs. That's what the original Red 3 had, Lundahls on the inputs. The new one's are pure SS and they do sound different, the transformer version is much much better. I think a project could be born from this if someone that had one gave us very detailed pictures inside to see kind of what's going on. I do believe it's a discrete compressor, so thats where it will sound different than a GSSL the most IMO. However, with the new OPA16XX line of chips I believe the GSSL with input TX's and some modding could get close.

Click to expand...

Lundahl?? Think you may have it mixed up with ISA and 500 Series RED 1.
What I've seen inside the old RED units were audio transformers similar to Neve.

The Red 3 carries a few unobtanium bits.

If I remember correctly:
- The output tranny is a carnhill pumpkin style with a feedback winding. Specs are unknown and carnhill does not sell them separately. This tranny and especially it's characteristics when driven hard is key to the sound.
- The schematic of the proprietary discrete VCAs are not available.
- Not all Red3 carry an input transformer. There was a lot with electronic inputs only.

FF430 schematic is available and shiws compressor circuit.  I had 2 of these at the old studio.  Not sure how they compare to red 3 .  Red 6 I repaired had lundhal mic tranny and electronic line in.  All focusrite I've been in have the toroidal output tranny.  Have not seen neve style output in any I've been in.  My experience says high quality coupling caps make a big difference in there sound quality.  430 is a massive amount of parts.  Would be very difficult to duplicate and lots of expensive parts. 

fazer said:

430 is a massive amount of parts.  Would be very difficult to duplicate and lots of expensive parts.

Click to expand...

Probably the reason why nobody attempted to clone it. A few years back I wanted to clone ISA 110 mic preamp, but when I looked at the price of 16x LL1538 after shipping and import tax, no thank you.

A little bit of searching for the Red 3 suggests there are two (or more) versions, the early one having a square box input transformer and a toroidal output. Late ones seem to be electronically balanced and there may be an intermediate model that has input transformers only

Nick Froome

pvision said:

A little bit of searching for the Red 3 suggests there are two (or more) versions, the early one having a square box input transformer and a toroidal output. Late ones seem to be electronically balanced and there may be an intermediate model that has input transformers only

Nick Froome

Click to expand...

I bet all the versions sound pretty similar in the end!

I have a friend with a blue 230 .  Problem is he uses it every day and I've never been able to borrow it long enough to look inside to see if it has input transformers. 

On LL1538's,  I love the sound of the 110s with these .  Just having 2 inputs with 5534's would work for me.  On my bucket list to diy,

I was always under the impression that the Red 3 was similar to the compressor and limiter section of the ISA430 circuitwise, but then of course for stereo line material. However, I don't have any evidence to back this up, and it could easily be I'm wrong here. But I don't think FR would re-invent the wheel when they designed the 430. Just like SSL recycles the buscompressor design, with a few changes here and there.

The ISA 430 uses an array of MAT 04's as VCA, So, yes, the compressor is discrete. The sidechaindetector of the compressor uses a 2180 , so this isn't discrete.  The limiter uses NSL opto's,  split into 3 bands. 
Manual is in the schematics sections of this forum if I'm not mistaken. Might be different to the Red3, it's still a very interesting schematic.

I have a veroboard stereo version of the limitersection in a drawer, waiting to use for experiments. I was thinking to try it with a LA4 style sidechain, and an SSL stereo line amp (identical to the I/O of the  G384  buscompressor, but then without VCA). More of a fun experiment that I just don't have the time for right now, hahaha !

Hmm, just had a look at the compounder schematic.

Even though there are differences, it has a very similar approach to compression as the ISA 430, and also uses MAT04 as VCA. 

As expected. 

So, it would surprise me much if the Red 3 would be totally different.
In the past I have found a picture of the inside of the Red 3, and I can see the MAT04's in the picture. 

Not saying the response and sound quality would be identical between the compounder, Red 3 and ISA.