ksor

What speaker to use for mixing ??
« on: October 17, 2017, 09:20:46 AM »
It's so annoying to max a song with headphones and tehn listening to it on some speakers - way different sound !

I think the only way here is "feel" ... know your headphones and speakers and take a average - right ?
KSor, Aarhus
Denmark
Skype: keldsor


KrIVIUM2323

Re: What speaker to use for mixing ??
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2017, 10:09:33 AM »
Hi Ksor,
As you experienced using headphone for mixing is tricky and results are not always what is expected when you switch from headphone to speaker.

This is mainly due to interaural effect and the lack of it when using headphone: when you mix with headphone you don t have a real sense of stereophony as many source seems to be located inside your head rather than in a scene in front of you. That said headphone are really usefull tool to judge dynamic and spectral contents as they isolate you from room artefacts.

So yes imho you need a pair of speaker for mix, this will not be without issues nevertheless, most of them being related to room and room placement of loudspeakers.

If i understand correctly your question you are looking for a reference (in a range) of speaker, right?

Rather than giving my own taste i find much intresting to have a larger view: what is the point of mixing?
For me its all about balance: of place in the scene you try to build, using level, eq, dynamics and effects.

So as long as you can balance and have a credible picture of all this either loudspeakers should be ok, and keep your headphone to check for low end content. For record /tracking this is different needs and i really do miss the mains of professional control rooms i used to work in in the past: full range spectrum AND ability to reproduce source at their real level are very desirable properties in my view.

For a dedicated model you have choice... many options about technology, type of speakers... (closed or vented, with ribbon, dome or compression drivers, multi way, coaxials or even full range) choice is yours within budget and personnal taste.

For my own taste i like 12" coaxial, preferably Tannoys as they have enough wide band reproduction, behave as point source and minimise room artifacts if located wisely ( and because they don t use dome tweeters that i tend to dislike as time goes).

« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 10:16:46 AM by KrIVIUM2323 »

JohnRoberts

Re: What speaker to use for mixing ??
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2017, 11:18:04 AM »
It's so annoying to max a song with headphones and tehn listening to it on some speakers - way different sound !

I think the only way here is "feel" ... know your headphones and speakers and take a average - right ?
The ultimate answer is what medium will your customers be listening through? Ideally you don't want to sound bad anywhere. A friend of mine with a recording studio used a low power FM transmitter to broadcast mixes to his parking lot so you could listen to mixes on your car radio. 

Back last century I was somewhat involved in merchandising some studio monitors (AMR) and there seemed to be two popular philosophies, #1 monitors that were very revealing to use during tracking to make sure the original capture of the sundry tracks were clean and useable. Then #2 a studio monitor that sounded good and was representative of what most customers used.

Instead most customers chose studio monitors based who used what to mix which hit record on.  Some speakers that did not sound very flattering (Like the iconic Yamaha NS-10) made very successful mixes because if you could make the mix sound good on them, it would sound great on other speakers.

JR

PS: My speaker guy's solution for the dual requirement was monitor speakers with a voicing switch to give two responses in one box. I still have AMR 308s in my livingroom system.
John Roberts
http://circularscience.com
Tune it, or don't play it...

john12ax7

Re: What speaker to use for mixing ??
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2017, 05:58:57 PM »
The answer is in experience/skill,  room acoustics,  and quality speakers.

The more time and money you spend on these the better your mixes the first time around and the less surprises  when listening on other systems. For speakers you probably want two sets,  a high end accurate pair,  and a cheapo pair the average consumer might use.

ksor

Re: What speaker to use for mixing ??
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2017, 05:30:17 AM »
Oh, just what I feared the most ... no exact recommend ;-)) ... and deep inside I knew it myself !

... but I so sick and tired of re-do the mixing when I hear the song 1-2 month later ... it's a never ending story ;-((

I think I have to live with that's how it is !
KSor, Aarhus
Denmark
Skype: keldsor

john12ax7

Re: What speaker to use for mixing ??
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2017, 04:23:10 PM »
What speakers are you using now? Spending money on good speakers makes a big difference. You hear details that you don't get with cheap ones.

Mbira

Re: What speaker to use for mixing ??
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2017, 05:11:55 PM »
I highly recommend the book my Mike Senior: Mixing Secrets for the small studio.  Silly name, but truly the best book I have read on the subject.  A couple specific points that I have learned from him about this:

Spend as much on room acoustics as you are spending on your speakers.
Get something like a single Aventone for checking the midrange and mono compatibility.
Always (like constantly) be checking you mixes against other reference tracks <- the most important tip.
Headphones are great for finding technical issues in your mix, but not for doing a full mix.
Joel Laviolette

Rattletree   |  https://www.rattletree.com
The Rattletree School of Marimba | https://www.learnmarimba.com

Seeker

Re: What speaker to use for mixing ??
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2017, 04:25:36 AM »
All very good advice, especially using reference tracks, I've learned that the hard way... a good A/B comparison setup is very important. 

I do think that you need to use speakers to do the majority of your mix, I check my stuff on headphones and make some adjustments, but the 99% of my mix is on speakers.   Personally, I am a believer in NS10's, but I also have a very flat set of speakers and a boom box I check on....  Also, I  use dropbox to check on my phone, car, tv, etc....
"Sometimes you have to play a long time to be able to play like yourself.” - Miles

KrIVIUM2323

Re: What speaker to use for mixing ??
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2017, 05:39:24 AM »
A/B comparison is nice if you keep in mind that released materials had mastering before going to final media  (whatever it is), so you ll have to compensate your reference track (for levels) versus the one you are working on, or you ll have surprise when it arrive to mastering engineer.

Dont forget that different materials needs different approach too, all your sources are not in the same key and don t nescesseraly need the same kind of eq.

One nice thing to do in my opinion is to make your first balance using the pink noise method as reference. And mix by sections starting with the louder one of the track then working backward. You ll see that all compressor and limiter settings will be far much easier this way.

Moby

Re: What speaker to use for mixing ??
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2017, 05:07:01 PM »
The answer is in experience/skill,  room acoustics,  and quality speakers.

The more time and money you spend on these the better your mixes the first time around and the less surprises  when listening on other systems. For speakers you probably want two sets,  a high end accurate pair,  and a cheapo pair the average consumer might use.
I agree, especially about the room acoustics. Even the mid priced speakers can sound and translate good in good rooms. Most expensive speakers can be useless in poor acoustics room.


ruairioflaherty

Re: What speaker to use for mixing ??
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2017, 02:53:38 PM »
It's so annoying to max a song with headphones and tehn listening to it on some speakers - way different sound !

I think the only way here is "feel" ... know your headphones and speakers and take a average - right ?

I've never been a fan of the "Listen to 7 lies to try to figure out the truth" approach.  That said I've spent time in the room with several superstar mix engineers that take exactly this approach, lots of speakers, none all that great, switching between to mix.  It helps that they are enormously talented.

Exactly what speakers you are using is less important than how they are placed in the room and how the space is treated.  Are you speakers against the wall? (more low end and less cancelations caused by boundaries).  Are your speakers (one or both) near corners (often too much low end build up).  Do you have a cloud? Are you speakers sitting on a desk or on stands (vibration coupled through desk will screw things up).

When I first moved the U.S. I shipped 29 boxes of my equipment.  I was staying temporarily in a house owned by family and used those cardboard boxes (bass traps when covered with packing blankets), a clothes rack full of jackets (behind me as absorption), two mattresses (side wall control) and some potted plant stands (for speakers)  to make a very workable space with a pair of borrowed speakers.  The work I did there holds up.

The internet says you need Speaker X or Y and yes good speakers matter but the truth is you can mix with cheap speakers and do good work if you get things right.




 

mobdirt

Re: What speaker to use for mixing ??
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2017, 05:14:18 PM »
My speaker mixes rarely translate on the headphones and vice versa, they are v different (a7x and ath m70x as of now) but i have another pair of headphones which, i know for sure, if stuff sounds crap on them it will most probably sound crap everywhere so it's kind of worth checking the mix once in a while through diff monitors and not wait till the end.

Whoops

Re: What speaker to use for mixing ??
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2017, 07:48:43 PM »
The answer is in experience/skill,  room acoustics,  and quality speakers.

This is the answer!

I would add knowing very well your speakers/room/headphones, but that is also part of "Experience"

After mixing 10 records with the same setup and room you will have a much better judgement.

e.oelberg

Re: What speaker to use for mixing ??
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2017, 05:34:09 AM »
I had surprising good mixing results with a pair of dt177 and sonarworks headphone correction. Of course you still won't get proper panning on headphones and reverb, but unlike  my previous experiences with headphones,  with sonarworks it is possible to do everything else.

fazer

Re: What speaker to use for mixing ??
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2017, 11:27:50 AM »
My setup uses sonarworks headphone speaker and system wide.   I agree this  system really helps your monitoring .  I use some genelec 1031’s,  Sony 7506 and sennheiser 600’s.   It’s great because the monitor controller has  2 digital inputs .  I use toslink from my Mac to listen to the iTunes library for reference (with system wide) and spdif from my I/0 for pro tools.  The genelec s are  equalized through sonarworks and have a reasonably low end extension  with eq.  Without the eq. They roll off quickly and have a hump at 250.  The bump is attribute to room but a sub for extension is even harder to integrate correctly.  I’m a believer in sonarworks and some acoustic treatment.   You can take with you to a new location.