I have always looked forward to tuning in to his PBS interviews. I’m going to mis him. Abusing your power for sexual misbehavior is not right. It is what it is. We live in a new world. It’s also a new type of Macarthism as well. I would watch him on the internet if he still did interviews. What do you think?
Charlie Rose
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shabtek
Well-known member
Love Charlie Rose.
I Don't follow news.
Must have been a bad actor.
Not uncommon, now or ever.
We are designed to 'chase tail'.
Does not excuse behavior.
I Don't follow news.
Must have been a bad actor.
Not uncommon, now or ever.
We are designed to 'chase tail'.
Does not excuse behavior.
nielsk
Well-known member
Truly disappointing, and while I am not surprised by the faults of any person in a position of power, I am beginning to wonder how much is being done by political operatives to stir up "whataboutism" in this current tempest, and take advantage of the climate to bring down perceived opponents. After all, it worked pretty well with the Linda Tripp / Monica Lewinsky honey trap. While I hesitate to attack victims, I can't help wanting to see financial investigations of accusers in the current environment.
I am really disheartened by the Al Franken stuff, he has been one of the most respectable politicians in Washington I can think of, actually speaking truth to power, and actually seeming to be a human being instead of most politicians who seem to be horrible creatures that bear little resemblance...
Of course until we deal with the extreme mental illness of society, self perpetuated by government, culture, media, the sports industrial complex that creates frustrated thugs and rapists that become police officers and other people in positions of power, the list goes on... nothing will fundamentally change.
Having a serial abuser as president does not bode well for evolving this kind of behavior out of the coming up generations
I am really disheartened by the Al Franken stuff, he has been one of the most respectable politicians in Washington I can think of, actually speaking truth to power, and actually seeming to be a human being instead of most politicians who seem to be horrible creatures that bear little resemblance...
Of course until we deal with the extreme mental illness of society, self perpetuated by government, culture, media, the sports industrial complex that creates frustrated thugs and rapists that become police officers and other people in positions of power, the list goes on... nothing will fundamentally change.
Having a serial abuser as president does not bode well for evolving this kind of behavior out of the coming up generations
There has been a cultural shift/pivot making this behavior less acceptable (I think the Cosby charges were perhaps emblematic to this change).
I don't know or care what CR is accused of. We will see more of this (coming from all directions and industries) that will bubble to the surface under the new climate.
This is undeniably a good thing but will be uncomfortable for many who were able to get away with bad behavior in the past. For years (decades) the US has been criticized as being too puritanical compared to Europe, wrt monogamy, etc. Hold onto your shorts because this is just beginning.
JR
PS: A woman (or women) is raising money to buy Weinsteins old company as some sort of gender justice (or just capitalizing on an opportunity created by current events)? Interesting times.
I don't know or care what CR is accused of. We will see more of this (coming from all directions and industries) that will bubble to the surface under the new climate.
This is undeniably a good thing but will be uncomfortable for many who were able to get away with bad behavior in the past. For years (decades) the US has been criticized as being too puritanical compared to Europe, wrt monogamy, etc. Hold onto your shorts because this is just beginning.
JR
PS: A woman (or women) is raising money to buy Weinsteins old company as some sort of gender justice (or just capitalizing on an opportunity created by current events)? Interesting times.
dmp
Well-known member
I had the thought the other day as story after story breaks that this is kind of like a bubble bursting. For decades now this type of behavior (sexual harrassment in the workplace) has been let slide, swept under the carpet. Covered up or dismissed by others, higher up the ladder of power, to keep things running smoothly and not rock the boat. So it's built up over time. If some of these men had faced consequences the FIRST time they did something inappropriate in the workplace, they probably would not have continued on doing more and more, worse and worse.
I've always disliked Charlie Rose--I find him smarmy and a little too into himself.
That men in positions of power/authority are being called out for their abuses is not a bad thing in and of itself. But since most of these charges are not going to be adjudicated in court, how will it all play out--particularly on the political side of things? Will Al Franken be booted from the Senate for what at worst are fairly minor transgressions while an alleged pedophile is elected in Alabama? Will John Conyers be dumped (as he probably should be, from what's surfaced so far) while an admitted serial sexual assaulter continues to sit in the Oval Office?
Or will we see a partisan divide, where Republicans will vote for any slime that gets them the activist judges they so desperately crave, and Dems are the only ones who actually get rid of bad actors & try to make things better?
I do hope to see change for the better out of all this, but it worries me that there's a huge swath of people who seem so eager to ignore these issues as long as the perpetrators believe as they do.
That men in positions of power/authority are being called out for their abuses is not a bad thing in and of itself. But since most of these charges are not going to be adjudicated in court, how will it all play out--particularly on the political side of things? Will Al Franken be booted from the Senate for what at worst are fairly minor transgressions while an alleged pedophile is elected in Alabama? Will John Conyers be dumped (as he probably should be, from what's surfaced so far) while an admitted serial sexual assaulter continues to sit in the Oval Office?
Or will we see a partisan divide, where Republicans will vote for any slime that gets them the activist judges they so desperately crave, and Dems are the only ones who actually get rid of bad actors & try to make things better?
I do hope to see change for the better out of all this, but it worries me that there's a huge swath of people who seem so eager to ignore these issues as long as the perpetrators believe as they do.
Far more than decades... the casting couch in hollywood is close to a century old. Taking sexual favors by force probably dates back to our caveman days. It is almost more about the force than the sex, but sex is a powerful motivation, and power just increases the availability for bad actors. Money is also a factor but typically that is transactional so different by degree.dmp said:
The thing I find disgusting about this recent (last few decades) situation is the lengths that powerful people and their agents (including high profile politicians) went to cover up and escape consequences. I'm sure these stories will provide interesting reading for years, including operatives working undercover to discredit victims, and executive contracts describing the tolerable limits of such behavior (should be zero tolerance)..
I won't list the bad actors from all sides that have risen to the surface recently., enough shame to go around.
JR
Timjag
Well-known member
- Joined
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In Hollywood young actresses have existed to provide they're naked body as a selling point. How many films are sold as "this is the one where ... bares all", Jaime Lee Curtis for example had to bare her breasts in trading places, though it had no bearing whatsoever on the story, this was a huge selling point.
Producers demand it - especially in art house movies, the more risky and niche the plot the more naked women the producers will ask for. It's about the bank at the end of the day. The casting couch is an extension of that.
Seth McFarlane's tasteless song that names every actress and in which movie she exposes her breasts hit the nail on the head "in Hollywood honey you're a pair of tits until you're old enough to play the mother" I think that Oscars was the breaking point, the producers behind it paid McFarlane to represent their gloating power over women in the industry and humiliate them all in one go.
How must that have felt? All those years studying your craft, all those awful auditions, those producers showing you their dicks, all that hell they must go through just for them all to be reduced to a pair of breasts. And not just collectively, but named one by one, at the industry awards where you'd expect some kind of recognition for your work.
What has really shocked me is just how many were at it. I've always tried to treat everyone well when I'm at work, I've been a teacher and always made sure everyone gets the best from me, sure I see some women I'm attracted to but I'm working and they're twenty years younger than me, they don't want to sleep with me!
Here in the UK we seem to have a problem with older male Politicians sexting young interns, they get caught and are suspended and your hear the same old thing "I'm so foolish I was under s lot of pressure blah blah" and I just think was it really so hard to not do that? Not send a dick pick to a 22 year old girl you hardly know? What a bizarre thing to do. And yet now we're hearing it again and again.
Mind you when I've been at NAMM and Plasa in the UK the various sales reps are always trying to take me out to strip clubs, which I find absolutely repellent, and I guess it's no surprise that people who think that is acceptable would also behave appropriately towards female members of staff.
Producers demand it - especially in art house movies, the more risky and niche the plot the more naked women the producers will ask for. It's about the bank at the end of the day. The casting couch is an extension of that.
Seth McFarlane's tasteless song that names every actress and in which movie she exposes her breasts hit the nail on the head "in Hollywood honey you're a pair of tits until you're old enough to play the mother" I think that Oscars was the breaking point, the producers behind it paid McFarlane to represent their gloating power over women in the industry and humiliate them all in one go.
How must that have felt? All those years studying your craft, all those awful auditions, those producers showing you their dicks, all that hell they must go through just for them all to be reduced to a pair of breasts. And not just collectively, but named one by one, at the industry awards where you'd expect some kind of recognition for your work.
What has really shocked me is just how many were at it. I've always tried to treat everyone well when I'm at work, I've been a teacher and always made sure everyone gets the best from me, sure I see some women I'm attracted to but I'm working and they're twenty years younger than me, they don't want to sleep with me!
Here in the UK we seem to have a problem with older male Politicians sexting young interns, they get caught and are suspended and your hear the same old thing "I'm so foolish I was under s lot of pressure blah blah" and I just think was it really so hard to not do that? Not send a dick pick to a 22 year old girl you hardly know? What a bizarre thing to do. And yet now we're hearing it again and again.
Mind you when I've been at NAMM and Plasa in the UK the various sales reps are always trying to take me out to strip clubs, which I find absolutely repellent, and I guess it's no surprise that people who think that is acceptable would also behave appropriately towards female members of staff.
T
tands
Guest
He had a move he'd try the women called The Crusty Paw. Elite courtier. Deep state shill.
Ive always had a distain for the institutions ,be it political ,church ,sports ,military ,educational, media,medical etc. I always detected the whiff of institutional rot long before even walking through the door . There seems to be an element of brainwashing/blind eye turning that has to accompany ascending the ladder in those kinds of systems ,the more dirt you have on people and the quieter you are about it the higher up the pyramid you get.You could complain to the boss ,get a bad actor taken out of the picture ,but in the end thats not going to do your own job prospects much good . As much as anywhere on the planet ,here in Ireland we've seen the hideous consequences of this hierarchical system .
Im going to illustrate my point with a quick anecdote , well its a true story actually ,but for the purposes of illustrating the point ,I'll keep it kind of generalised .
A young but bright lad grows up in a tough town ,piss all in the way of job prospects ,so he signs up to the military ,brimming with enthusiasm and pride ,he heads out to war .
Before long his smarts and gumption finds him in charge a small group of soldiers ,the usual routine of kicking down doors ,rounding up suspects etc
Before long he realises some of his men have a taste for tortureing, raping , and killing the women and children of the suspects their sent out to round up .
Does he ,
1. Turn a blind eye
2. collect evidence ,call for a court marshall ,bring disgrace on his unit, completely screw up his future job prospects and end up scraping piss stains off urinal walls for the rest of his days .
3. wait for an opportunity when the bad actors litterally have their pants down ,sneak up on the household in question ,keep putting grenades through the window until nothing moves anymore
Well anyway so the story goes ,it was option 3 he took ,said he had come under enemy fire ,collected a medal and a promotion for his troubles .
I know its a very extreme example Ive put up ,but in many ways it illustrates the point Ive made about institutions above ,and what good people in bad situations end up having to do .
I know I have posted this story before ,appologies to anyone who's reading it over and getting bored . I know some who read this might find it upsetting ,its not really a post anyone could take sides on . I do hope it energizes ,what really has become a central issue for every single one of us in the world today , how to fix the pyramid we've created without it toppleing down around us .
Im going to illustrate my point with a quick anecdote , well its a true story actually ,but for the purposes of illustrating the point ,I'll keep it kind of generalised .
A young but bright lad grows up in a tough town ,piss all in the way of job prospects ,so he signs up to the military ,brimming with enthusiasm and pride ,he heads out to war .
Before long his smarts and gumption finds him in charge a small group of soldiers ,the usual routine of kicking down doors ,rounding up suspects etc
Before long he realises some of his men have a taste for tortureing, raping , and killing the women and children of the suspects their sent out to round up .
Does he ,
1. Turn a blind eye
2. collect evidence ,call for a court marshall ,bring disgrace on his unit, completely screw up his future job prospects and end up scraping piss stains off urinal walls for the rest of his days .
3. wait for an opportunity when the bad actors litterally have their pants down ,sneak up on the household in question ,keep putting grenades through the window until nothing moves anymore
Well anyway so the story goes ,it was option 3 he took ,said he had come under enemy fire ,collected a medal and a promotion for his troubles .
I know its a very extreme example Ive put up ,but in many ways it illustrates the point Ive made about institutions above ,and what good people in bad situations end up having to do .
I know I have posted this story before ,appologies to anyone who's reading it over and getting bored . I know some who read this might find it upsetting ,its not really a post anyone could take sides on . I do hope it energizes ,what really has become a central issue for every single one of us in the world today , how to fix the pyramid we've created without it toppleing down around us .
Tubetec said:
Sadly, even in the face of credible and very public allegations, way too many in the GOP are prepared to do just that--in fact, they did just that with Trump as well.
So is this just a teachable moment for people who vote Democratic? Are large swaths of people in the GOP so wrapped up in their ideology that they've sacrificed their own morality and human decency?
The groper in chief just endorsed the Alabama pedophile for senator, and he's not the only GOP politician doing so.
I think the real lesson here is that the modern Republican party has been twisted into something so amoral and repulsive that it is beyond redemption. The party of Lincoln has become the party of snatch grabbing and teenager banging. Really, really pathetic.
Perhaps because the customers want to see it... It sells tickets and it is a business.Timjag said:
There is significant difference between film nudity that presumably the actor agreed to, and the casting couch, where sexual favors are traded for a job... Perhaps to some this only differs by degree...
CR apparently abused his position and power in the industry... I'm sure we are just starting to hear how many in positions of power have abused others.
JR
Since you chose to make this partisan, how about all the people who defended President Clinton (including Hillary who attacked the sundry women accusing her husband)? Or how about Senator Kennedy and Mary Joe, in Chappaquiddick?hodad said:
I am happy to see this cultural change to make such behavior by everybody less acceptable. This is a good thing. Making everything political is not IMO.
JR
JohnRoberts said:
But right now this very much is political. There's some indication that Republican sleazebag/Trump booster Roger Stone was at the very least privy to, or possibly even responsible for, the Leigh Ann Tweeden story coming out. Stone doesn't give two spits about sexual harrassment or sexual assault; he has a political agenda he is pursuing, and morality has not a thing to do with it. And where were your moral convictions (or others') when it came to Trump? Is it only noteworthy when it's a Democrat?
I think Franken has at least approached this in an appropriate manner--reported himself to the ethics committee, quickly apologized. Roy Moore and Donald Trump are remorseless pigs, as far as I can see.
I'm not terribly convinced of Franken's innocence. But if you don't think the timing of the Tweeden story was entirely political, then you are far more naive than I give you credit for being.
men are pigs, what else is new? at least that is what my girlfriend told me,
admit it, what is the first thing you look at when you see a woman walking down the street?
does anybody care? if so, why did chump get elected after that grabbin pussy story broke? did not seem to deter many necks,
admit it, what is the first thing you look at when you see a woman walking down the street?
does anybody care? if so, why did chump get elected after that grabbin pussy story broke? did not seem to deter many necks,
I do not doubt that political spinners from both parties are working the news cycle for political gain. That is their nature (read the scorpion and the frog fable).hodad said:
In my judgement this is a social, cultural shift, not a political one. There are scumbags in both parties, and from ALL walks of life.
Identifying this as human nature does not excuse it, but may help us understand it.
I welcome this change as one of the few recent cultural shifts that makes the world a better place (for a change).
JR
PS: Suggesting that I must be naive because I do not agree with you is not the correct way to look at life. Every argument has two sides, and sometimes neither position is completely wrong. You do not need to embrace my opinions but please do not suggest I must be naive if I don't think like you. Such statements are all too common in politics, and why political discussions often deteriorate into ugly ad hominem.
Matador
Well-known member
I would agree with you that there are bad actors across the political spectrum. But there is more to this than that particular statement: the fact that the perception of these events is different across the political spectrum, as are the consequences.JohnRoberts said:
Take Franken and Rose: Rose is now out of a job, and Franken is facing investigations and may ultimately either step down or face a primary challenger. Why is this political suicide on the left, and the ticket into office on the right? Trump voters went into the ballet box knowing full well the history of the person they were voting for. Polls in Minnesota are showing likely left voters are seriously considering alternates to Franken (moving over 70% if you consider only left-leaning women), yet Moore is on the cusp of becoming the next Senator of Alabama, because "we can't have a Democrat in office".
So it makes it very difficult to square statements of the "social unacceptability of sexual misconduct" and the rewarding of such behavior in the political spheres.
On one level I do think this is a fairly non-political social shift--and I think it's a good thing. There's a good bit of re-evaluating of cultural norms that needs to happen. However, there's certainly enough smoke to suggest that the Tweeden attack on Franken was politically motivated, and quite possibly to give Roy Moore cover. Which is bothersome, as it's not about morality or a culture change--it's about putting a child molester in the Senate.
And Matador did a rather thorough job of explaining what I may have glossed over--on the right there seems to be a push toward normalizing/accepting/glorifying sex offenders if it keeps those terrible Dems out of office. Regardless of what Dems do, how is that in any way healthy or "progress"?
And yes, I know it's not all Republicans doing that, but in Trump's case (we'll see about Moore) it was enough to win an election.
And Matador did a rather thorough job of explaining what I may have glossed over--on the right there seems to be a push toward normalizing/accepting/glorifying sex offenders if it keeps those terrible Dems out of office. Regardless of what Dems do, how is that in any way healthy or "progress"?
And yes, I know it's not all Republicans doing that, but in Trump's case (we'll see about Moore) it was enough to win an election.
T
tands
Guest
Matador said:
It's called integrity, and Franken is a dem, not 'the left'. He's out because regardless of what the republicans do, he cannot represent the left and have a history like the one he has. There's nothing special about Franken, he's just some random dem, and replacing him with a woman has no downside whatsoever and plenty of upside. Any and all of these sh*ts, get them out.
The reason you have people fighting to keep him in is because they don't want to be accountable to the f**king rabble, and they don't want the rabble calling the shots, no matter what. It's just some authoritarian we know better than you bullsh*t. Luckily, it's obvious, and no one is buying it.
T
