I've been working on the concept of live bluegrass music and the "one big mic" thing that's becoming popular.
That made me laugh! 'Becoming popular'!
'All the kids are doing it'. I sure hope so.
IMO LD condensors work fine, esp for live bluegrass.
I work at Telluride Bluegrass Fest and a few other assorted 'fests'. planetbluegrass dot com
Not FOH guy, nothing important. Just stage/shuffle crew. But i smile and ask lots of dumb Qs, just like here.
Most often the LDs onstage are KSM32 or AT4050. Less frequently AT4060. As PRR mentioned, durability is important, especially for the product you are envisioning. Bluegrass bands often have uncovered shows in dusty fields, around sooty campires etc. Even the ones who make decent money.
As pstamler said, some bluegrass players prefer less (or no) monitor mix (they like to actually hear each other!) so makes it much easier. Others are used to loud stage volume. Depends on band.
My fav trad bluegrass band is Del McCoury Band.
He's old 'high lonesome' singer from way back. 5 piece band, guit/mando/banjo/fiddle/standup, all 5 sing. 2 are his sons.
For years their stage setup (for every gig, indoor/outdoor, not just TBF) was one AT4033 and a bass DI. They control ambient volume perfectly. I've listened from FOH, and after 5 minutes, FOH guy didn't touch a thing. For solos, the rest of the band moves apart slightly, and soloists step up. It becomes a kind of dance, esp for concurrent solos. Amazing to watch and listen. (check 'Get Down on Your Knees and Pray')
Not sure if they used a monitor last year.
These guys put engineers out of business. They could hit the studio with that just-okay mic and any DI... 6 hours later, out comes a (mixed) record. Like Tom Dowd etc in the old days. They're like magic. They think autotune is the demo button on the store organ. That's what's great about (some) bluegrass, the authenticity of sound. Also why i think your big mic/box is a great idea.(also PRR never says 'good enough for bluegrass').
Their 'new' setup as of last year is (2) AT4033, about 2 feet apart, each 15-20 degrees (or so) off axis. I guess they wanted more elbow room for choreography. That means each mic slightly pointing toward SOS mains. Still, no mains feedback.
For bass, they also traded the DI for a KM84, mounted in a foam tube under the bridge, pointing at the neck, parallel to body surface.
Great bass sound! Technique works with a C451EB in my house too.
Uneven polar pattern. Smaller capsules have much better rejection at all frequencies, while LDC tend to approach omni in the lower frequencies.
Well thanks, maybe that explains why KM84/451 works so well under the bridge.
2 SDs could sound really nice, except maybe not for vocals??? Just my opinion after recording my own voice with C451 (cardiod cap). A little too thin from 24 inches. I'm a baritone.
For bluegrass, TBF tried 'everything + bass' on one mic a few times over the years, but IMO it never worked well. The bass is just such a different thing, less signal, lower down and often farther away from the mic than the other instruments. Bassist-plus-bass often takes up too much room around the mic. So bassist might stand behind the front circle, then there are bodies in the way. Also, the SD bass mic technique only works with my upright in that one position. I can't get a great sound from SD anywhere else around the bass, only with LD or 2mic combo. Even if you had a SD mic inside the 'big mic' pointed down to the spot where the bassist was 'supposed' to stand, i don't think you'd get anything usable. Might i suggest 2 separate mics, or mic plus bass DI for an all-in-one box.
For the 'rest of the instruments' mic, at least for stage bluegrass, a rolloff would be handy. Maybe include a switch on the box for indoor/monitor gigs, or windy outdoors.
I've played (too many) salsa/rock/etc (loud) gigs. Sound guys have put FET LDs on 2 saxes and congas in our band (with monitors) all at once with no feedback. And a tumba from 6 inches (low conga) will generate lower freqs than a guitar or daddy singing bass from 24...
So though i am no FOH guy, i suspect an LD is in the realm of possibility.
How bout Alice in an iron pipe (for durability) and separate SD bass mic w/ mount?
Even though i just said Del McCoury etc can sound good with tin can/string, I admire your pursuit of this directive... it's a good source to aspire to capture authentically. Could i ask what inspired this idea? Friend asked, bluegrass fan, niche market analysis, etc?
August 17, 2006, 07:10:39 PM