Crazy, Pseudo 67 style tube mic, or terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea.

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Wordsushi

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Interestingly enough, I was surprised to read that Barbaric's 67 is essentially Chris' flat tube circuit married to one of 3u's new smooth top 67-capsules. Easy enough, right? The sound samples are convincing. So much so, I'm just a teeny bit suspicious, but that's just me.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/1143551-neumann-u67-retro-sta-level-barbaric-ba-67-posted-audio-samples.html

So, it got me wondering... Dany's D-12 is a flat circuit, right? The last one I built was pretty quiet, too. If I got one of Guosheng's smooth top 67's, what would that sound like? The MicParts T-84 I have with the 3u smooth top capsule is amazing.
 
I just can't wait for that capsule to arrive. I have one flat tube mic that is waiting for a good capsule, so that one is going right there. The goal with u67 was to make kind of flat mic. So that capsule might be that kind of flat sounding.
 
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/1143551-neumann-u67-retro-sta-level-barbaric-ba-67-posted-audio-samples.html
 
Sorry about that Ruff. Link fixed. Thanks King.

Yeah King, I hope you get it soon. Please post a sound sample. I'd love to hear what it sounds like on your flat tube mic. Which mic is it?

I've been tempted to pull the trigger on the $990 Stam Audio December pre-sale price on their 67 and then I heard Chris' Barbaric BA-67 clips and thought, wow, maybe that's what I should do instead of waiting until at least March for the Stam. I've messaged Chris and the BA-67 is $650... and then when I read that his mic is just a flat circuit with this capsule... it really got me thinking that I could build another D-12 with the 3u flat capsule for around $350.
 
I have one modded nady 1050 with russian dual triode, and 6:1 transformer from 3U with internal variable gain (saturation) setting. Achieved by different capacitor configuration. I am still experimenting there.

However, my favorite mic for modding is Behringer B2 as it has dettachable head. I plan on building one tube version with basically c12 type circuit. I have two more solid state with u87 circuit, and schoeps with variable eq. I have several different capsules in B2 heads, so the idea is to mix different circuits with different capsules at will.

My tube mic PSUs have variable voltage settings, instead of just replacing diodes i like to have options. I started a topic on this recently, but got mocked in the end because of this. Some guys just like to go as clean as possible, and never leave that theritory.

You can always add/change/remove cap that determines HF roll off, guy at 3u audio does that in Warbler mics.

 
Suspicious of what? Just ask Chris, he’ll tell you what’s up... Also, I’ve seen him marry quite a few circuits, tubes, and transformers to that capsule so I bet he pretty-well knows what to could be used or not for the desired results with that capsule.

Anyhow, flat circuit plus flat capsule... Don’t think anyone would see anything wrong with that line of thought.
 
Not suspicious of Chris' mic. More accurately, I'm mildly skeptical of the recording made by the guy who did the shoot out. I downloaded the files from the post and the waveforms just look a bit too identical. I have nothing but mad respect for Chris Prucher and what he's doing at Barbaric.
 
Well in that case, I can vouch for Justin. He knows great sound and has mastered things for me for probably 15-years... Chris and I were more critical of those samples, with the Neumann having easily-noticeable more presence and space. Still, he’s right though, with processing and in the mix, it gets really-close. I’m looking-forward to Chris doing a pair of 67-types for me at some point this year and comparing to his standard BA-67.
 
Recording Engineer said:
Well in that case, I can vouch for Justin. He knows great sound and has mastered things for me for probably 15-years... Chris and I were more critical of those samples, with the Neumann having easily-noticeable more presence and space. Still, he’s right though, with processing and in the mix, it gets really-close. I’m looking-forward to Chris doing a pair of 67-types for me at some point this year and comparing to his standard BA-67.

I'm definitely impressed then. The BA-67 definitely punches way above its price point.

I have that same capsule atop flat FET circuit and it turned out to be so surprisingly awesome on my voice that I actually use it for work every day now, so I'm really keen on finding out what it would sound like with a tube mic. I was very seriously thinking about a BA-67, but now I'm leaning toward just building a D-12 or D-251 with this capsule instead.
 
All three sound like good options and I still think asking Chris his opinion might be good. Regardless, I think the decision between D-12 or D-251 might be a matter of if you want a more laid-back-mid or more forward-mid; comparatively.
 
By analyzing these to files, and  matching them it is obvious that the clone doesn't have high end roll off. It is not so noticeable with vocals, but shootout with drums or acc. guitar would reveal this for sure.  However, the curve attached shows the difference that should be applied to Barbaric mic to match frequency response of true u67. Roughly of course. That 5k dip 3u capsule has, compared to u67 is actually great for sibilant vocals.

Surely, these are not manipulated takes, null test shows that. One of these has not so good off axis rejection, which one is hard to tell. You can try this for your self, but make sure to time align them perfectly. There is microscopic time (space) difference.
 

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Recording Engineer said:
All three sound like good options and I still think asking Chris his opinion might be good. Regardless, I think the decision between D-12 or D-251 might be a matter of if you want a more laid-back-mid or more forward-mid; comparatively.

Yeah, my sole mic use is for voice over, so I generally need something that's more mid-forward. My question then is whether or not this particular capsule, when applied to a flat circuit, will do that for me. The MicParts T-84 circuit I have the same capsule on is pretty flat, but it also has the mod that adds additional secondary harmonic distortion. It seems to work great with this capsule on my voice for my needs. I can probably ask Guosheng, too. I hate to bug Chris, to mine him for information, when I'm most likely just going to build this mic myself at this point.
 
kingkorg said:
By analyzing these to files, and  matching them it is obvious that the clone doesn't have high end roll off. It is not so noticeable with vocals, but shootout with drums or acc. guitar would reveal this for sure.  However, the curve attached shows the difference that should be applied to Barbaric mic to match frequency response of true u67. Roughly of course. That 5k dip 3u capsule has, compared to u67 is actually great for sibilant vocals.

Surely, these are not manipulated takes, null test shows that. One of these has not so good off axis rejection, which one is hard to tell. You can try this for your self, but make sure to time align them perfectly. There is microscopic time (space) difference.

Thanks a bunch for doing that. I've found with this capsule, that I add 2db of 6k to get it right where I need the tone.
I've been using the Massenberg UA plug in, which seems to really work for my purposes so given how well I've found the 3u capsule takes EQ, I think if I can get reasonably close to what Chris has done, I can just create a bank of EQ profiles to dial up starting with your curve. :) The 3u smooth top capsule seems to be the magic bullet. I think at this point I have to decide what kind of flat tube circuit to marry it to. Luckily, I think off axis rejection is probably less of a concern for me because I'm always up on my mics in my treated booth.

Ultimately, I'm not looking to create a dead on U67 clone, but something in that sonic ballpark that is dialed in like a tailored suit so I can use it for my work and, as a big plus, learn a few things along the way.

 
The capsule has arrived, and is installed in a flat tube mic. My initial measurements show  the same thing i measured in the shootout. It is nowhere near bright as typical chinese k67, but i wouldn't call it smooth because of that 4-5 db dip. My measurements show it's between 6 and 7k. Could be great as i said for sibilant voices, but not so great on drums, guitars, etc.
Sad to say it's not even close to U87 in this range, even though 10k area is under control.

Orange is vintage u87
Green is 3u Audio Smooth Capsule
Red is MP k47 in same mic body as 3u audio, still one of the best capsules i have ever tried
Blue is stock Studio Projects C1 as a ''harshness' reference.
 

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Sound Samples:

3U audio
https://app.box.com/s/ju3a1wfduqcfz96uqahu7a7771p0jbva

Neumann u87
https://app.box.com/s/qjyvzfu9tweecl9wcf1thl93l88o7tf5

Akg Perception P220 with just one capacitor changed (in deemphasis network)
https://app.box.com/s/j0wjb6m1udxyeq9a0u9edqaicrw4001l

Studio Projects C1 stock as a ''harshness'' reference
https://app.box.com/s/o1pz5qynbjmn2edtuwemvhrhvnwnza30
 
Tried it also in a FET mic, and like it way better there. It will remain in that body. Seems that that tube/grille combo doesn't suit it. (Nady 1050) That dip is also shallower.

Anyway, truly amazing and unique capsule on the market.

https://app.box.com/s/a3ysnf1p24amsxgdbh4yn6splubso5n9
 

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