PhilStudio

SM57 vs PDM-57 think it's the right place to post this
« on: August 05, 2017, 06:32:48 PM »
https://youtu.be/-4TojDuzDYE

Hope you enjoy and may add some of your experience to this video!

Here is the link to the full research : https://www.facebook.com/notes/philstudio/s2e4-sm57-vs-pdm-57/1785580338123895/
« Last Edit: August 05, 2017, 07:25:09 PM by PhilStudio »
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pucho812

Re: SM57 vs PDM-57 think it's the right place to post this
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2017, 05:32:54 PM »
 who makes a PDM57? What kind of mic is it? have we reached the bottom of the trench that we need to clone a sm57 now? :o
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

JohnRoberts

Re: SM57 vs PDM-57 think it's the right place to post this
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2017, 01:18:45 AM »
who makes a PDM57? What kind of mic is it? have we reached the bottom of the trench that we need to clone a sm57 now? :o
mic companies have been trying to win market share any way they can... 


JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

gyraf

Re: SM57 vs PDM-57 think it's the right place to post this
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2017, 09:15:06 AM »
That's kinda funny, when you consider how much all-over-the-place the sound of SM57s really is.

In our studios, every 57 had a color code so you could differentiate the one that starred at gtr cabinets from the ones for snare-under. Just picking up any 57 and expecting it to sound in a particular way is a bit naive. When you buy a new one, make sure to listen to all the ones the shop has in stock.

But it's tough - in all the years I serviced the studios, I never had a 57 dying completely - although plenty were badly damaged mechanically. This probably gained it the respect from the live-crew, that ultimately made it a standard..

ymmv

Jakob E.
..note to self: don't let Harman run your company..

JohnRoberts

Re: SM57 vs PDM-57 think it's the right place to post this
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2017, 10:11:05 AM »
That's kinda funny, when you consider how much all-over-the-place the sound of SM57s really is.

In our studios, every 57 had a color code so you could differentiate the one that starred at gtr cabinets from the ones for snare-under. Just picking up any 57 and expecting it to sound in a particular way is a bit naive. When you buy a new one, make sure to listen to all the ones the shop has in stock.

But it's tough - in all the years I serviced the studios, I never had a 57 dying completely - although plenty were badly damaged mechanically. This probably gained it the respect from the live-crew, that ultimately made it a standard..

ymmv

Jakob E.
For live sound the shure mics gained popularity for robustness and reasonable performance consistency (which does not seem consistent with your experience). In live sound same sensitivity helps getting an initial rough mix. Consistent frequency response and polar pattern, helps manage stage feedback. It's nice if the same settings as last time still work or are close.

There have also been lots of counterfeit shure mics sold, as with any iconic and popular product while I thought the sm-58 was more popular than the 57. 

JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

Seeker

Re: SM57 vs PDM-57 think it's the right place to post this
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2017, 10:26:45 PM »
That's kinda funny, when you consider how much all-over-the-place the sound of SM57s really is.

I have noticed a little bit of variation in 57s and 58s but Ive found it to be mostly minor tonally speaking, but I have heard some reasonable level differences between some that really threw me. 

And I have to say that, it is a nice comparison,  but considering what a 57 will do for $100 or so, why bother with any of the generic rip offs?

"Sometimes you have to play a long time to be able to play like yourself.” - Miles

Re: SM57 vs PDM-57 think it's the right place to post this
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2017, 08:11:06 AM »
who makes a PDM57? What kind of mic is it? have we reached the bottom of the trench that we need to clone a sm57 now? :o

i have encountered many counterfeit SM57 and SM58. mostly sold in Asia.

PhilStudio

Re: SM57 vs PDM-57 think it's the right place to post this
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2017, 07:00:27 PM »
Sorry everyone for late reply... Your post are all really interesting.

PDM-57 is made by JTS.
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Re: SM57 vs PDM-57 think it's the right place to post this
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2017, 07:38:33 PM »
Ive heard of those counterfeit 57's and 58's alright ,it can be hard to spot a genuine from a fake ,but the sound is a dead giveaway,if it seems too good to be true pricewise its most likely a fake .Theres a few good  web pages up showing you how to tell genuine from fake ,but to the untrained eye its hard to tell .

Whoops

Re: SM57 vs PDM-57 think it's the right place to post this
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2017, 10:33:46 PM »
In our studios, every 57 had a color code so you could differentiate the one that starred at gtr cabinets from the ones for snare-under. Just picking up any 57 and expecting it to sound in a particular way is a bit naive. When you buy a new one, make sure to listen to all the ones the shop has in stock.

I don't have the same experience you had, from all the dynamic mics we had in the studio the 57 were the ones more consistent to each other after years of use.

You should listen to the 421 and 409 mics we had, those were all over the place frequency wise.

I will not even speak about the AKG D12/D20 (well much older, yes), as I never had 2 sounding pretty close to each other at all. It's not only low end (common problem) but also the high end and mids were completely different.

Not a big fan of the SM57 in terms of sound, but it's pretty cheap, really strong and even if doesn't sound amazing it never sounds bad also.

I was also never in contact with an SM57 that completely failed, ever, both in the studio or live. Even when the monster drummer hits the capsule full blast with the stick.
I cannot say the same for any other dynamic microphone

I also don't see the point in buying a copy or a counterfeit of such a cheap mic as the SM57.
but like JR said "mic companies have been trying to win market share any way they can...  "

About your video,
you are doing different performances for each mic, so thats a downer for me. 

« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 05:44:25 PM by Whoops »


Spino

Re: SM57 vs PDM-57 think it's the right place to post this
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2017, 01:40:14 PM »
I'm among those that actually like the 57 for specific tasks where I  would pick it over any other mic. It's my go to mic for snare top on "straight rock" records and mildly distorted guitars. Every time I find it just gives me that "well, that's what's supposed to sound finally" kind of feeling.

But I'm also one of those engineers that never ever liked the sound of ribbons, to say. So maybe I'm just deaf.

Wouldn't mind buying a clone since the original is pretty cheap and it will last ages. I remember though once getting in the argument of old USA made version vs new Mexican made version, apparently "they don't sound anything like the other".

Whoops

Re: SM57 vs PDM-57 think it's the right place to post this
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2017, 05:48:20 PM »
But I'm also one of those engineers that never ever liked the sound of ribbons, to say. So maybe I'm just deaf.

Nowadays the choices in terms of Ribbon mics is pretty huge, and the  characteristics and sound difference is also quite big. I'm sure if you try a lot of different ribbon mics you will like some of them and dislike others.


I remember though once getting in the argument of old USA made version vs new Mexican made version, apparently "they don't sound anything like the other".

They sound pretty similar, much more similar than the SM57 and any crappy cheap clone


rackmonkey

Re: SM57 vs PDM-57 think it's the right place to post this
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2017, 01:46:48 PM »
Ive heard of those counterfeit 57's and 58's alright ,it can be hard to spot a genuine from a fake ,but the sound is a dead giveaway,if it seems too good to be true pricewise its most likely a fake .Theres a few good  web pages up showing you how to tell genuine from fake ,but to the untrained eye its hard to tell .

Sorry i’m just weighing in on this, but to put some color on Tubetec’s comments, i’ve bought my last used SM-57/58. Between about 2008 and 2015, whether I picked them up off of individuals, eBay, or from online retailers that weren’t “authorized Shure dealers”, i’ve gotten 7 fakes (all confirmed by Shure customer support).  Some were new in the box, some used.

The early fakes I got were obvious from the get-go based on cosmetic or mechanical differences (such as the grill not spinning freely when rotated) but the later ones (mostly new in box) weren’t suspect until using/listening to them.  The counterfeiters have gotten better and better at the game as the exposees on the web have grown in number. The last fake I got was a dead ringer in every way except for the frequency response and the serial number. Even had a fake from a dealer selling through Amazon.

So i’m now permanently skeptical of any discussions about the sound of 57s/58s simply because the fakes problem is so big, it’s likely that more than a few newer/younger users of them out there have never even heard a real one. The last Shure support guy I talked to told me that there are estimates of more than 5 million fakes hitting the market over just the last 10 years. Evidently, they’re doing it with the Beta line as well. Check out Shure’s site and you’ll see more than a few archived press releases about raids of factories cranking these out.

In the end, they’re so dang cheap I just don’t bother with getting them anywhere but one of Shure’s official dealers anymore. Not worth the headache.

Caveat emptor.

BT
« Last Edit: December 27, 2017, 03:17:31 PM by rackmonkey »
Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're probably right.

Whoops

Re: SM57 vs PDM-57 think it's the right place to post this
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2017, 03:35:18 PM »
In the end, they’re so dang cheap I just don’t bother with getting them anywhere but one of Shure’s official dealers anymore. Not worth the headache.

+1

Re: SM57 vs PDM-57 think it's the right place to post this
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2017, 05:10:46 PM »
We buy ours new from shure, I test them all and mark them accordingly, considering they are so cheap the tolerances aren't too bad. My favourite is Mexican produced from the early 2000s. My least favourite is a new American made one.

In my years I have had new old stock 58s and knackered ones, 78s, beta 58s, 545s, unispheres and just about every other incarnation of the unidyne design.

Vintage vs new has had little effect on the quality of sound produced in my view and neither does the location in which it was made, it's more a case of pot luck. That said, all are eminently usable.

Counterfeits are a pain, I've yet to hear one that is right but they are certainly getting closer. 

Considering the negligible effect location *or* era plays in the sound quality produced and coupled with the low retail price I can see absolutely no good reason to purchase a shure mic from anyone other than the manufacturer or manufacturer approved dealer.


Whoops

Re: SM57 vs PDM-57 think it's the right place to post this
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2017, 12:51:41 AM »
Counterfeits are a pain, I've yet to hear one that is right but they are certainly getting closer. 

Just to be clear, counterfeit mics are only similar on the outside.
They make the outside look as close at possible to the original but the insides are completely different including the capsule.
So basically it's a different mic with the same looks














rackmonkey

Re: SM57 vs PDM-57 think it's the right place to post this
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2017, 03:04:24 AM »
If only it were that simple. Those comparison pictures have been around for several years. The counterfeiters don’t sit still. They look at these sort of photo essays and improve their products based on the shortcomings identified. Since those were taken, some fakes have gotten much closer to the originals. You can’t just tell by the wire color any more, or by the lack of a quality control stamp on the plastic wire retainer, or the shape of the headbasket, concavity of the grille, etc. It can be extremely difficult to spot the better fakes now based on cosmetics alone.

And they often do have better capsules in them than the fakes from 10 years ago. Back then, they often were so bad they sounded like the capsule was shot (the “transformer” in some I had were just metal slugs with yellow tape around the center). The latest ones I had sounded pretty decent but were lacking in the mid lows, with a bit too much boost in the 5k -8k range. If you didn’t know what a real one was supposed to sound like, you might not have even questioned it.

There’s money to be made doing this, so the people behind it haven’t shied away from making investments to keep their business from diminishing. It’s a moving target, unfortunately.

BT
Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're probably right.

Spino

Re: SM57 vs PDM-57 think it's the right place to post this
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2017, 09:03:39 AM »

There’s money to be made doing this, so the people behind it haven’t shied away from making investments to keep their business from diminishing. It’s a moving target, unfortunately.

BT

One has to wonder how much money is left there to be made, I'd reckon the more the quality and resemblance of the counterfeit goes up, the less these guys have gains.