Fender Rhodes changing tone character

Hey guys,

A year ago i bought a fifty four Mk II fender rhodes which had been completely serviced by a local music store.
I was told it would be possible to change the overall tone by unscrewing and moving the pickups all together gently towards one direction. Now my question was, did anyone ever try this method and are there any major problems i could run into by trying to do that? Just for clarification, i don't want to adjust the pitch or anything, just the character. I'm not completely satisfied with the calm warm sound, i rather prefer that dirty, barky sound, with a lot of harmonics.

thanks in advance 
Ansgar

If you're trying to get the Wurly-style bark with a Rhodes, it just won't happen. But you can get closer by doing what they guys at the store told you to do. I don't know about the Mk II (I play a Stage 73 Mk I), but it's a simple matter to loosen the lock-screws and slide the pickup heads closer to the end of the tynes. It'll definitely increase harmonics and grit to a degree, but again, it's a Rhodes, not a Wurly. I can get fairly close to the bite/bark of that tone with the pickups moved closer to the tynes and the right amp settings. But the amp settings are an important part of it as the pickups alone don't quite get there.

A lot of the Mk IIs as I understand it had the "Dyno-my-Piano/Tyno-Dyne" mod done to them to give them that more bell-like, 70s soft-rock sound. I never liked that. I don't know all the details on that (it involved a pretty big change-out of internal parts and added a 9v battery or adapter for what was probably a preamp). If that was done to your Mk II, moving the pickup heads isn't going to get you as far down the dirty path as you may want. You might want to do some research on that mod if you find that the pickup proximity isn't having the effect you want.

BT

Hey rackmonkey!
Thanks for these details! Needless to say it's not a wurly and i don't intend to make it sound that way. I am not looking for a drastic change, just a little more "harmonics".  I wasn't aware about the mod, although I can't see any battery or adapter so i'll give it a try.  I'm gonna try two things, move the pickups and adjust their angle towards the tines. That should be enough i guess.
What the amp concerns, unfortunately i don't own the fender twin which would be my favourite choice but money doesn't allow it at the moment.
For the meantime i'm gonna try to amp directly into the DAW. Maybe i can switch to amp micing in the future. Are there any good alternatives software/hardware-wise?

Ansgar

weiss said:

For the meantime i'm gonna try to amp directly into the DAW. Maybe i can switch to amp micing in the future. Are there any good alternatives software/hardware-wise?

Click to expand...

Do you use a DI? Direct connection to a line input is a tone-killer. Even passive DI's are tone-killers. Rhodes p/u's are high impedance.

abbey road d enfer said:

Do you use a DI? Direct connection to a line input is a tone-killer. Even passive DI's are tone-killers. Rhodes p/u's are high impedance.

Click to expand...

Currently i go directly into my fireface 800 and then i use a tupe preamp plugin. i know i should use a high impedance preamp but i have no hardware for that at the moment.

weiss said:

Currently i go directly into my fireface 800 and then i use a tupe preamp plugin. i know i should use a high impedance preamp but i have no hardware for that at the moment.

Click to expand...

Before you do anything to your keyboard's set-up, solve this issue first. Can you borrow a decent DI?

Agree. Hi-Z input!!

You can change the dynamics and harmonics by re-aligning the pickup nose to the tine. You can easily make it unplayable various ways: hitting harder plays softer, etc. I've been there, paid to have an experienced tech put it back to nominal.

PRR said:

Agree. Hi-Z input!!

You can change the dynamics and harmonics by re-aligning the pickup nose to the tine. You can easily make it unplayable various ways: hitting harder plays softer, etc. I've been there, paid to have an experienced tech put it back to nominal.

Click to expand...

Absolutely right. I should have mentioned that it's easy to get carried away with the pickup realignment thing. A little goes a long way. You do actually get some sort of blocking going on if you get them too close to the tynes.

Agree with the others though - solve your input issue first. Ideally, save up to get an amplifier to run it through and mic it up.

BT

rackmonkey said:

You do actually get some sort of blocking going on if you get them too close to the tynes.

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Not only that; anyone familiar with a Strat knows bringing the p/u's too close to the strings make the instrument play flat. Same with a Rhodes; having to retune a Rhodes is not a minor chore.

Okay now i lost my confidence a little 
After what you guys said it doesn't seem to be so easy at all.. at the moment it is perfectly set up except not for my taste..
I want to avoid having to ask for a tech but if i'd only do small pickup changes?
I'm already looking for a fender amp but they usually sell for 600€ and above  :-\

weiss said:

I'm already looking for a fender amp but they usually sell for 600€ and above  :-\

Click to expand...

A good active DI cost about 1/10th and has numerous uses.

abbey road d enfer said:

A good active DI cost about 1/10th and has numerous uses.

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True. How about a frontend with tubes, something like a  DIY Fender blackface style preamp or way cheaper, a Hampton JFet Mic Preamp. (as deluxe DI without transformer)

or

http://moosapotamus.net/ideas/alembic-f-2b-preamp/

or with reverb and tremolo  8)

https://www.tedweber.com/media/kits/5h15_schem.jpg

cheers

rock soderstrom said:

True. How about a frontend with tubes, something like a  DIY Fender blackface style preamp or way cheaper, a Hampton JFet Mic Preamp. (as deluxe DI without transformer)

or

http://moosapotamus.net/ideas/alembic-f-2b-preamp/

or with reverb and tremolo  8)

https://www.tedweber.com/media/kits/5h15_schem.jpg

cheers

Click to expand...

Do you mean the FETboy by Scott? Yes the F2B preamp looks promising. I still have a case laying around. The frog preamp seems is simple to build. Maybe I should give it a try.

weiss said:

Do you mean the FETboy by Scott? Yes the F2B preamp looks promising. I still have a case laying around. The frog preamp seems is simple to build. Maybe I should give it a try.

Click to expand...

Yes, the Hamptone JFet micpre and the Fetboy are basicly the same. Important is that you implement the source capacitors switchable. This way you can achieve everything from really clean to heavy overdriven sounds. You don't need the in/output transformers.

http://www.tangible-technology.com/ipr/AE230/html/wk_6/hamptone_fet_scan.pdf
https://tapeop.com/tutorials/37/diy-jfet-mic-pre/

I always felt that the sound associated with a Rhodes on records was quite compressed, which also changes it tonally. 

Okay to sum it up, i brought the pins closer to the pickups and that is what i was looking for, a bit more bark, not much just a touch. I got really close to what i had in mind!
thanks guys for helping me out 

rock soderstrom said:

Yes, the Hamptone JFet micpre and the Fetboy are basicly the same. Important is that you implement the source capacitors switchable. This way you can achieve everything from really clean to heavy overdriven sounds. You don't need the in/output transformers.

http://www.tangible-technology.com/ipr/AE230/html/wk_6/hamptone_fet_scan.pdf
https://tapeop.com/tutorials/37/diy-jfet-mic-pre/

Click to expand...

Thanks man. My alternative would be the Joyo American Sound Amp Simulation Pedal / or the AC Tone (both quite cheap). I'm  really impressed with the sound.. 

Rob Flinn said:

I always felt that the sound associated with a Rhodes on records was quite compressed, which also changes it tonally. 

Click to expand...

true!

i got a nice deal on this 1073 style preamp with EQ by steffen müller which allows me to use a DI for my rhodes and i can choose between 300 and 1200 ohms.



how do you guys EQ rhodes pianos?
it has a lot of resonances i was trying to reduce a little. that should do no harm i guess.

weiss said:

i got a nice deal on this 1073 style preamp with EQ by steffen müller which allows me to use a DI for my rhodes and i can choose between 300 and 1200 ohms.

Click to expand...

Do you mean you connect the Rhodes output to the mic input? Or into a DI (high-impedance) input - in which case the 300/1200 ohms has no effect? What type of preamp on the Rhodes? The passive one or the active? The active can drive a (low-Z) mic input with no significant change in "colour" (only attenuates the overall level), but the passive one must see a high-Z input.

how do you guys EQ rhodes pianos?

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It all depends on what sound you're aiming at; for clean sound, just make sure it is connected to a suitable input. With the passive preamp, you must use a high-Z input, because it behaves very similarly to a passive electric guitar. If active, you just need to make sure the resulting level is correct in order to optimize noise.
Now, if you're looking for a "dirty" sound, you need a dirty signal path AND a piano that's specifically tuned for. Dyno-my-piano is the perfect example of this combination.

it has a lot of resonances i was trying to reduce a little. that should do no harm i guess.

Click to expand...

If you record in a DAW, the parametric EQ should take care of that. If not, you probably need an outboard parametric. The EQ facilities found on most mic preamps do not feature the kind of sharpness and selectivity needed to get rid of resonances.
Anyway, I would look first at how the Rhodes is voiced.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljqEB_r37Rg

Regarding lack of harmonics, it's also in the voicing i think. Angle of the tine relative to the pickup, the distance from the pickup to the tine. You were right, the ohm selection switch was indeed only for mic input, but i have another separate switch to select between DI high and DI low. DI high is what i use now and i like the results actually. In songs where the rhodes should't pull too much attention it fits just nicely even with out the voodoo going on when miking through an amp. but i'll try that one as well as soon as i have money for a real fender amp.

weiss said:

Currently i go directly into my fireface 800 and then i use a tupe preamp plugin. i know i should use a high impedance preamp but i have no hardware for that at the moment.

Click to expand...

fd

FF800 has an hi-Z input on the front of the unit.



Thomas