sr1200

USB and the Studio
« on: March 22, 2018, 04:48:59 PM »
I'm about to "break ground" on my new place in a few weeks (finally... been waiting 2+ years now).  I'm trying to come up with a good way to pipe USB connections between rooms.  I figure USB3 is probably safe for most things audio related (keyboards, electronic drum kits, other devices... not talking microphones or interfaces here).  The other thing is power.  I'd like to find a way to get the ports lit with the 5v from a reliable source and not a crap switching supply/wall wart kinda thing, id rather it be something more "permanent".

Any thoughts?
MEI Studio - Long Island, NY: http://www.meirecords.com


Re: USB and the Studio
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2018, 08:41:46 AM »
Hello

Keep in mind that usb may have length limit ! which can be a problem in a multi room studio depending of cable path...

Best
Zam

sr1200

Re: USB and the Studio
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2018, 09:03:29 AM »
There was a company doing usb over fiber, but it was extremely expensive.  The runs aren't terribly long.  25 -30' max. 10-12' shortest.
MEI Studio - Long Island, NY: http://www.meirecords.com

Re: USB and the Studio
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2018, 09:14:14 AM »
25 -30' max. 10-12' shortest.

I guess you talk inches? Then it should work with self powered usb

Best
Zam

sr1200

Re: USB and the Studio
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2018, 09:22:28 AM »
that was feet, so 8-10m max and 3-4m shortest ;)
MEI Studio - Long Island, NY: http://www.meirecords.com

Walrus

Re: USB and the Studio
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2018, 10:05:39 AM »
With USB2, 3-4 metres should be fine, but you will have problems with 10m.
USB3 is even more limited, you will definitely have to use Active cables.
Kevin.

Re: USB and the Studio
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2018, 11:44:29 AM »
that was feet, so 8-10m max and 3-4m shortest ;)

yes ! I mean feet ...

Gold

Re: USB and the Studio
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2018, 02:02:30 PM »
These look fantastic.

https://www.corning.com/optical-cables-by-corning/worldwide/en/products/usb-optical-cables.html

I haven't used them but I know people who have without issue. It's not some fly by night company either.

abbey road d enfer

Re: USB and the Studio
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2018, 02:45:51 PM »
These optical cables are not cheap, at $109 for a 33ft, 199 for a 50ft, you'd better think if really you need these USB connections. For MIDI, you may want to use conventional copper...and maybe complement with WiFi.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
Star ground is for electricians.

ruairioflaherty

Re: USB and the Studio
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2018, 03:13:50 PM »
We use USB over ethernet at the studio I work from, it works well but we are not demanding a lot from it.



abbey road d enfer

Re: USB and the Studio
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2018, 03:34:31 PM »
We use USB over ethernet at the studio I work from, it works well but we are not demanding a lot from it.
I don't think you get usable timing going via ethernet, unless using a prioritized layer, such as Dante.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
Star ground is for electricians.

sr1200

Re: USB and the Studio
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2018, 04:54:23 PM »
@Gold, those were the ones I saw at AES a couple years ago and the same ones i was thinking about.  We may wind up doing a single long run to the furthest area with that and use a powered hub if we need more than one device on that line.

The shorter runs i have no problem with using copper, i think that will suffice.

For the "charging stations" (can't believe thats actually a thing now...) I'd like to find something that is better than a cheap switching supply.
MEI Studio - Long Island, NY: http://www.meirecords.com

ruairioflaherty

Re: USB and the Studio
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2018, 06:17:58 PM »
I don't think you get usable timing going via ethernet, unless using a prioritized layer, such as Dante.

Ah, yes.  Ours is all keyboards and peripherals, no audio. And even if it was in mastering land everything happens slowly, extra latency doesn't really matter.


abbey road d enfer

Re: USB and the Studio
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2018, 07:23:50 PM »
extra latency doesn't really matter.
On keyboards?
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
Star ground is for electricians.

scott2000

Re: USB and the Studio
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2018, 08:38:11 PM »
There has to be something available for the power??? Most of the new houses around here have usb ports in some outlets now....Wonder how they're doing it....

Mbira

Re: USB and the Studio
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2018, 10:00:23 PM »
I use a USB to ethernet thing for a webcam that we use with the live band. It can go about 75 feet. I had to buy a few different types until I found one that was compatible. If you can, I recommend doing everything over ethernet if possible.
Joel Laviolette

Rattletree   |  https://www.rattletree.com
The Rattletree School of Marimba | https://www.learnmarimba.com

ruairioflaherty

Re: USB and the Studio
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2018, 11:38:05 PM »
On keyboards?

Computer keyboards!  Mice, trackballs etc.  No noticeable lag that I'm aware of.

For midi, I suspect you are right.

abbey road d enfer

Re: USB and the Studio
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2018, 06:26:36 AM »
I use a USB to ethernet thing for a webcam that we use with the live band. It can go about 75 feet. I had to buy a few different types until I found one that was compatible. If you can, I recommend doing everything over ethernet if possible.
I did that and found the timing is horrible; OK if used as a video intercom, but for playing interaction, forget it.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
Star ground is for electricians.

Mbira

Re: USB and the Studio
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2018, 06:11:13 PM »
I did that and found the timing is horrible; OK if used as a video intercom, but for playing interaction, forget it.

I had to test a couple different setups.  I returned two different hubs as they were unusable.  The one we use now works well enough to display the image in a live band setting in 1080p with around 100ms delay.  Basically the same amount of delay that I get without the hub. This is the one that ended up working best:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01EV33R8S/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
It beat out the Sewell one that was about $300. 

But- if you are trying to play in real time with another remote player by watching the video, then I don't think the technology exists yet.  I was even watching a Tony Robins documentary the other day and even with their huge setup with hardwired cameras, there was still a noticeable delay between him talking and the talking on the monitors.
Joel Laviolette

Rattletree   |  https://www.rattletree.com
The Rattletree School of Marimba | https://www.learnmarimba.com

abbey road d enfer

Re: USB and the Studio
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2018, 02:21:46 AM »
But- if you are trying to play in real time with another remote player by watching the video, then I don't think the technology exists yet.
I used 2.4GHz cameras and it worked well, with no latency issue; however I had to give up because WiFi interefered with them, so I couldn't run both simultaneously.
I thought I found a solution using 5.8GHz cameras, but they lacked range.
Finally I chose to turn off WiFi whenever I used the cameras, but it's just another chore added to preparation, so I gave up using cameras. Nobody seems to care much, anyway.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
Star ground is for electricians.