pucho812

compressors per channel
« on: April 19, 2018, 06:59:03 PM »
if you could pick one compressor to have on each channel of a desk what would you pick and why?
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.


ruffrecords

Re: compressors per channel
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2018, 07:22:45 PM »
if you could pick one compressor to have on each channel of a desk what would you pick and why?
I like the ones I have per channel on my AKAI DPS24. Lots of ready made presets plus you can store your own. I even have my own Fairchild preset.

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

abbey road d enfer

Re: compressors per channel
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2018, 07:44:59 PM »
if you could pick one compressor to have on each channel of a desk what would you pick and why?
Analog or plug-in? That makes a huge difference.
Analog (like built-in the channel) I would go for a simplified 160-type (VCA with adaptive-timing RMS detector); it's what I go for 9 times out of 10.
If it was plug-in, I wouldn't lose the ability to change at a whim. :)
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
Star ground is for electricians.

shot

Re: compressors per channel
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2018, 08:04:40 PM »
Pico!

pucho812

Re: compressors per channel
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2018, 08:57:16 PM »
This is for an analog console.  If that helps any
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

abbey road d enfer

Re: compressors per channel
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2018, 09:11:21 PM »
The pico is in essence a "simplified 160-type (VCA with adaptive-timing RMS detector)". Seems to me a good choice.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
Star ground is for electricians.

EmRR

Re: compressors per channel
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2018, 06:50:57 AM »
Yeah FCS (fancy pico) P3500 if i had to reduce to one and multiply. 
Best,

Doug Williams
Electromagnetic Radiation Recorders

"I think this can be better. Some kind of control that's intuitive, not complicated like a single knob" - Crusty

"Back when everything sounde

guze

Re: compressors per channel
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2018, 05:49:30 PM »
An opto or fet type, can be more economical in a "large" format, and not so "THAT//DBX". more unique, and very simple control(threshold and knee/ratio). You dont want 5 more knobs in a channel strip.

abbey road d enfer

Re: compressors per channel
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2018, 06:44:56 PM »
An opto or fet type, can be more economical in a "large" format, and not so "THAT//DBX". more unique, and very simple control(threshold and knee/ratio). You dont want 5 more knobs in a channel strip.
My suggestion has 3 knobs (threshold, ratio, make-up) and 1-3 switches (by-pass, soft/hard, meter). Can you have less than that on opto or FET-type? In addition, Fet compressors have a coloration and opto have a somewhat unpredictable transient response that does not make them usable on everything. I'm not saying that my proposal will be adequate on 100% of the channels, but I think a good 80% is probable.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
Star ground is for electricians.

pucho812

Re: compressors per channel
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2018, 07:17:10 PM »
 will we need part matching with opto's and fets, or do we not care here?
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.


abbey road d enfer

Re: compressors per channel
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2018, 09:59:34 PM »
will we need part matching with opto's and fets, or do we not care here?
You may care if you do stereo - then you would need a "link" switch. IMO it complicates matters. Stereo compression is not that frequent; I think it's one of the cases where the compressor built in the channel is not adequate and needs to be replaced with an external unit.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
Star ground is for electricians.

pucho812

Re: compressors per channel
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2018, 10:44:27 PM »
You may care if you do stereo - then you would need a "link" switch. IMO it complicates matters. Stereo compression is not that frequent; I think it's one of the cases where the compressor built in the channel is not adequate and needs to be replaced with an external unit.

good point. 
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

ruairioflaherty

Re: compressors per channel
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2018, 02:48:14 AM »
My vote is for VCA, opto and FET are typically stronger flavors and better left to outboard. 

For me attack and release are essential, especially in modern production where so much of what we are doing is transient shaping and not dynamic control.  It's a huge part of creating depth in a mix, even more so now that verb is verboten (I exaggerate of course).

I'd suggest a 4 knob setup - threshold, attack, release and output gain and put the ratio on a 3 way toggle switch - 2:1, 4:1 or 10:1.  If space was really tight you could put attack, release and ratio on 3 way toggles all side by side.

ruffrecords

Re: compressors per channel
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2018, 04:05:26 AM »
Back in 1972, for my degree dissertation, I designed a compressor using some of those new fangled op amp things. I used  piece-wise linear approximation to generate the desired output level from the input signal. Then I compared that with the output and used the result to control a FET.

Anyway, a few years later I got into microprocessors and it occurred to me you could make a much better job of the piece-wise linear approximation in software. Taking this idea one stage further, there is no reason not to store attack and release and ratio information in a micro. Plenty of micros have EE memory so several presets could be stored. Seems to me a compressor with the ability to store several user defined settings would be very handy, whether it was per channel or stand alone. Why has nobody done this already - or have they?

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

Re: compressors per channel
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2018, 09:24:15 AM »
Anyway, a few years later I got into microprocessors and it occurred to me you could make a much better job of the piece-wise linear approximation in software. Taking this idea one stage further, there is no reason not to store attack and release and ratio information in a micro. Plenty of micros have EE memory so several presets could be stored. Seems to me a compressor with the ability to store several user defined settings would be very handy, whether it was per channel or stand alone. Why has nobody done this already - or have they?

Hi
It exist, at least I know one.
http://www.davehilldesigns.com/TITAN.html
Don't know how it sound, never use it

I design a system (fader automation) using ARM stm32, I have in mind since I play with this MCU card to try driving a VCA for compression (already done for "volume" automation via midi)
I just have to hook an AD an test it...
What accuracy do you think is requested ? I have a ready to work 12bit AD, which I'm able to perform 11bit without any jitter.
What would you let at analogue side chain, only the wave rectifier ?

For the OP, I have in mind the VCA compressor optionally fitted at fader modules in the Studer 900 series, but I just have a look back at the shemo and it's an advanced design... to many component for a "simple" unit

Best
Zam

pvision

Re: compressors per channel
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2018, 10:15:43 AM »
IIRC the channel compressor on the SSL 4000B used the channel VCA as the gain reduction element. The 4000E-on used a separate VCA in the channel dynamics section. Wouldn't surprise me if the AMEK Big used the channel VCA for the virtual dynamics

Examples of micro-controlled compressors include the FMR RNC Really Nice Compressor, the Distressor & others

The SSL 4000E (etc) channel dynamics was a great utility compressor but a little too clean & undramatic for my tastes. I'd put an 1176 per-channel but recognise that might be a little extreme for most. So a VCA compressor with minimal controls might hit the spot

SSL used it for gating / expansion as well as to allow compression & ducking by linking to other channels. Something to consider

Nick Froome

abbey road d enfer

Re: compressors per channel
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2018, 10:39:20 AM »
The SSL 4000E (etc) channel dynamics was a great utility compressor but a little too clean & undramatic for my tastes.
Isn't it what one would want on a channel comp? Too much of the same "colour" can be stodgy.

Quote
  I'd put an 1176 per-channel 
Each one his own...  :)
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
Star ground is for electricians.

ruffrecords

Re: compressors per channel
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2018, 11:56:09 AM »
Hi
It exist, at least I know one.
http://www.davehilldesigns.com/TITAN.html
Don't know how it sound, never use it

Zam

That comes close but it has no way to store and recall presets, I would have though that would be an easy addition.

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

abbey road d enfer

Re: compressors per channel
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2018, 12:42:09 PM »
Seems to me a compressor with the ability to store several user defined settings would be very handy
Depends in which hands and circumstances. I agree that "total recall" of a whole mix is a nice feature in a work in progress, so switching between projects is made easy.
The downside is a tendancy from many to use the big name preset (insert favourite singer/SE/mixer), which is counter-creative IMO.
It's not a new thing; I was hired in 1977 to engineer a session in a recently installed studio. When I left, they hurried to put on paper all the mixer's settings. I tried later to tell them how futile it was, but they were not convinced.
I should have reset the mixer completely flat; that would have enhanced my guru status  :-[
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
Star ground is for electricians.

EmRR

Re: compressors per channel
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2018, 01:11:17 PM »
My vote is for VCA, opto and FET are typically stronger flavors and better left to outboard. 

For me attack and release are essential, especially in modern production where so much of what we are doing is transient shaping and not dynamic control.  It's a huge part of creating depth in a mix, even more so now that verb is verboten (I exaggerate of course).

I'd suggest a 4 knob setup - threshold, attack, release and output gain and put the ratio on a 3 way toggle switch - 2:1, 4:1 or 10:1.  If space was really tight you could put attack, release and ratio on 3 way toggles all side by side.

I like these thoughts but would add, as I understand it, attack and release in a dbx type circuit is peak detection with modified timing, differing greatly in sound and distortion profile from dbx 'overeasy' rms detection.  If I can only have one, I want it to be rms overeasy.  Especially if it's 8 talking heads in broadcast with more downstream processing.   

Best,

Doug Williams
Electromagnetic Radiation Recorders

"I think this can be better. Some kind of control that's intuitive, not complicated like a single knob" - Crusty

"Back when everything sounde


 

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