Routing at top or bottom of channel strip?

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mjrippe said:
Yes, I also was envisioning it rotated 90 degrees.
This frame is definitely not photogenic but it looks better in real life that it does in a photo. One reason for  its size and shape is because I had it made by Frank Rollen and at the time the largest sheet he could handle was 500mm square. So this frame is 500mm (20 inches) deep and 500mm high. It is similar in shape to some of the earlier Helios consoles:

Helios_Front_Eric_Clapton.jpg


But I agree, it is not ideal. It will do for a prototype to act as a test bed for the Mark III development, So, what is the ideal console profile??

Cheers

Ian
 
It becomes a balancing act.  Having the controls steeper is nice to visually see things and easy to get at the knobs.  But too steep becomes too high where it interferes with the monitors.

I would look at some common console dimensions and go from there.  I've seen detailed dimensions published for API 1608, SSL 4000 and SSL duality.

But for some general perspective:
For heights from the floor,  around 29" is common for the fader height. Monitor stands typically come in 36" and 42" heights. So 13"  (42 -
29) would be a max from top of fader panel to top of console to allow monitor clearance.  7" Max (36 - 29) would be better still to allow a greater variety of monitors to be used. Even with this you are still somewhat neglecting the desk reflections.

This is for near fields on stands, may not be an issue with higher up wall mounted speakers.
 
I agree it is a balancing act but I think many modern consoles like the SSL have got it wrong. I just looked at the dimensions of an SSL 4000. You are right, it is 29 inches to the fader level. However, it is over 40 inches from the  front of the fader buffer to the farthest controls. My arms are barely 2ft long and, even ignoring my belly, I would be hard pushed to reach the farthest controls even if I stood up. This is mostly because the slope of the console is only 17 degrees or so. Shallow angles are easy to achieve if you have a frame mounted console because you can make the frame so it will  take any depth of module. But if you are making a desktop console this is not possible so deep modules have to sit at higher angles.

My channel modules need 8 inches of depth.  If the routing modules were located below the channel modules (and they are probably going to be only about 4 inches deep) we could place the channel modules above them and probably get away with a slop of around 30 degrees. Anything much less than that is going to be very difficult.

Cheers

Ian

Edit: Here's my idea of the right sort of angle:

neve+53%3F.jpg
 
Hi

I guess draw the max angle you can so that console top don't go over ears horizontal plan (minus speakers) , if you have very lonnnnnnnnng modules like SSL angle is only few degrees, if you have short modules you can increase angle

the Neve you show look like aroud 30° (at leas below 45°) , the previous Helios look like 45° and speaker still over the top plan (if perspectives don't fool me)
Your preliminary frame hardware look around 30° but from vertical (do I see the angle we calculate in another topic ?), if the desk sit at 75cm the top is at 125cm, considering "standard" ears position in a chair at 120cm you will have trouble with you speakers.

My desk is at 110 and I'm just at the limit to not mask my two way speaker vertically wall mounted (21cm+tweet setup)
and of course I already have issue with reflection at top of the console (comb filter)

side note paradox:
-the best mixing tool you can have in a control room is a "real" (analog) console
-the worst acoustic element you can have in a control room between speaker and you is a console...

Best
Zam
 
zamproject said:
side note paradox:
-the best mixing tool you can have in a control room is a "real" (analog) console
-the worst acoustic element you can have in a control room between speaker and you is a console...

Quite true.  Possible solutions are getting the angles to a point where reflections don't go to the ears to at least lessen the problem.  Another interesting one I've read about was using a different material that reflects less at audio frequencies.
 
john12ax7 said:
Quite true.  Possible solutions are getting the angles to a point where reflections don't go to the ears to at least lessen the problem.  Another interesting one I've read about was using a different material that reflects less at audio frequencies.

Or maybe special shaped knobs to diffuse the sound??

Cheers

Ian
 
One question i am struggling with is that this will be a small mixer. It is not two metres long and a metre deep so it does not warrant a custom stand. Instead I would prefer it to be a desktop mixer but this means the fader section needs to be very slim especially if the desktop it is on is already 29 inches high. Do people who use desktop mixers saw the legs off the desk so the faders are at the right height?

Cheers

Ian
 
You don't need to worry too much about what is sits on as long as it's not obscenely heavy.  One thing to consider though is knee clearance when sitting.  I would use 24" as a minimum.  So with a 1" table top and 29" height you are left with 4" for the depth of  the fader section, less is better if you can swing it.

For my setup I bought an adjustable height desk,  wood top with steel legs so it can do a reasonable amount of weight.  Not too expensive.
 
john12ax7 said:
Possible solutions are getting the angles to a point where reflections don't go to the ears to at least lessen the problem.  Another interesting one I've read about was using a different material that reflects less at audio frequencies.

Yes, more angle you have better it is, first Ian frame assembly is the best for surface reflection, but the height is to much

I remember a desk with small ball rubber coating surface, don't have the brand in memory right now.

ruffrecords said:
I would prefer it to be a desktop mixer but this means the fader section needs to be very slim

Don't do it too slim, just in case you need to fit a pcb or a motor fader :)

Best
Zam
 
john12ax7 said:
You don't need to worry too much about what is sits on as long as it's not obscenely heavy.  One thing to consider though is knee clearance when sitting.  I would use 24" as a minimum.  So with a 1" table top and 29" height you are left with 4" for the depth of  the fader section, less is better if you can swing it.
Fader section is only 3 inches high so we are OK there.
For my setup I bought an adjustable height desk,  wood top with steel legs so it can do a reasonable amount of weight.  Not too expensive.
I did not realise such things existed but I just checked on line and there are loads of them. I think I might have to buy one of them for my workshop.

Cheers

Ian
 
I disagree that it’s a bad shape.  I think it’s a good shape. Especially if you position the speakers to the side of and  in front of the main verticle plane.  Then it’s no worse than a wall. It’s the splash off a horizontal plane that smears things.  If you made a late era large format console  in this form factor you would have to either do squats or stand on top toes to reach the controls. They have to be mostly horizontal for practical reasons.
 
Gold said:
I disagree that it’s a bad shape.  I think it’s a good shape. Especially if you position the speakers to the side of and  in front of the main verticle plane.  Then it’s no worse than a wall. It’s the splash off a horizontal plane that smears things.  If you made a late era large format console  in this form factor you would have to either do squats or stand on top toes to reach the controls. They have to be mostly horizontal for practical reasons.

I think they have to be horizontal  simply because there are so many controls to fit in. And the reason there are so many controls is the inline format and that is a whole other can of worms.

Cheers

Ian
 
The stuff you use the most should be the nearest.
For me, routing at the top, some people like  sends near, EQ next, routing furthest.  But I have seen people switch sends and EQ on dig consoles with moveable panels.
 

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