Complete denuclearization of NK *****ula

I seriously doubt this statement. He didn't spend all that time, money and effort throwing fits and killing family members to suddenly de-nuke. I smell something fishy going on here. Regardless of the north and south talks, etc. I don't believe it. Not a single word.

Edit: I'm also not sure why the forum logic chose to censor peninsula. However, that is the word...

Ha! I guess, if that's considered a 'dirty' word?

But, not far from the truth?

desol said:

I seriously doubt this statement. He didn't spend all that time, money and effort throwing fits and killing family members to suddenly de-nuke. I smell something fishy going on here. Regardless of the north and south talks, etc. I don't believe it. Not a single word.

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NK has both feet firmly planted in their old play book. Indeed he has no intention of giving up his nuclear weapons because they are keeping him in power and probably alive. There is some word judo going on, when NK says de-nuke the peninsula they mean get the US military to pull out, while we mean that he gives up his weapons.

Apparently Un has had "the art of the deal" translated into Korean, or maybe had Dennis Rodman read it to him.  (joke).  But he is "negotiating" as is POTUS. The bomb test facility he just shut down was already unusable so an empty gesture, but the media will lap it up.

It is remarkable how anti-Trump the media is, they mock him for agreeing to meet with Un, then mock him for cancelling the meeting, as if they have a clue.  I am not optimistic for full deal anytime soon, but we have seen more progress recently than for a number of years. 

Edit: I'm also not sure why the forum logic chose to censor peninsula. However, that is the word...

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The AI spell checker is pretty dumb..thought you said penis (the male intromittent organ) .  Maybe we can teach it to block twitter?

JR

Maybe.

I did read about his worn out nuke test site collapsing or something similar, so it doesn't surprise me that he's offering that up as a rotten carrot.

JohnRoberts said:

It is remarkable how anti-Trump the media is...

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Is it really?

[quote author=@realDonaldTrump]
The FAKE NEWS media is not my enemy, it is the enemy of the American People!
[/quote]
That was 1 month after being sworn in.

[quote author=@realDonaldTrump]
Whenever you see the words ‘sources say’ in the fake news media, and they don’t mention names it is very possible that those sources don’t exist but are made up by fake news writers.
[/quote]
or:

[quote author=@realDonalTrump]
Don't believe the biased and phony media quoting people who work for my campaign. The only quote that matters is a quote from me!
[/quote]
There were like 50 more but I don't think I need to include all of them to make the point.

I too don't see neither NK nor SK denude any time soon.

North Korea is a Pen*sula, or at least it's leader is...

He does seem to overcompensate.

I don't know anything about Kim and compensation. All humans do that to varying degrees.

NK is a classic buffer state. Not an easy fate. And without wanting to defend anyone here, any leader in the North, be it one of the Kims or be they called Songs or Jongs, they probably have good reasons to distrust the US -- whether we share that sentiment or not.

And there sure are intelligent brains at work under the most unusual hairstyles of late. Let's hope that these people listen to it.

Anyway, the surprise meeting on 27th looks like another piece of good news -- at least from a Japanese angle.

When you find yourself making excuses for authority‘s abuses, remind yourself of the victims. Does a toddler torn from her mother care if Trump is worse than Obama? Is it fair to her to ignore or mitigate Obama’s abuses because you deeply admire Obama and don’t care whom he hurt?

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https://twitter.com/SusanofTexas/status/1000711088382664704

A class of obscenely wealthy elites have generated and maintained a simulation of democracy that most Western consumers desperately need, so that they can believe they are not just smoothly-functioning cogs in the machinery of a murderous global empire.

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https://twitter.com/NatCounterPunch/status/999739424945586177

I don't believe in conspiracy theories.

Script said:

I don't know anything about Kim and compensation. All humans do that to varying degrees.

NK is a classic buffer state. Not an easy fate. And without wanting to defend anyone here, any leader in the North, be it one of the Kims or be they called Songs or Jongs, they probably have good reasons to distrust the US -- whether we share that sentiment or not.

And there sure are intelligent brains at work under the most unusual hairstyles of late. Let's hope that these people listen to it.

Anyway, the surprise meeting on 27th looks like another piece of good news -- at least from a Japanese angle.

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Kim's been blowing himself up to receive badly needed recognition.

If it wasn't the US it would be Japan, or Germany, or China, or Russia, or Britian. All of them are guilty and are playing the same high stakes game. Some are playing the game together, while others are more obtuse. It's important that we don't get tunnel vision. The question is, who's team do you want to be on. Where would you rather live. I have a few different preferences, and they're all on the same team, more or less.

I know where I live and am aware what's at stake should that one blow up.

I'd say let the two Koreas sort it out between themselves first. That's also what their people what. The rest will sure follow...

A forcefully divided country is a very deep scar that I assume takes more than one generation to heal -- probably two, maybe even three.

Anyway, the older I get the more I feel that pessimism is an utter waste of time. I have started to lack patience for that.

Hiroshima? Clearly more than one side to that one, but I lack patience to discuss. Anyone who wants to explain Nagasaki? I'd be interested in hearing that one. Please feel free to shot...

Any US citizen anywhere in the land of the free who seriously feels threatened by NK? :

Script said:

I know where I live and am aware what's at stake should that one blow up.

I'd say let the two Koreas sort it out between themselves first. That's also what their people what. The rest will sure follow...

A forcefully divided country is a very deep scar that I assume takes more than one generation to heal -- probably two, maybe even three.

Anyway, the older I get the more I feel that pessimism is an utter waste of time. I have started to lack patience for that.

Hiroshima? Clearly more than one side to that one, but I lack patience to discuss. Anyone who wants to explain Nagasaki? I'd be interested in hearing that one. Please feel free to shot...

Any US citizen anywhere in the land of the free who seriously feels threatened by NK? :

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It's exactly as I said, everyone and no one is guilty at the same time, but it's easier to understand by saying 'no one is soley to blame'. Of course they don't feel threatened...that's what this entire thread is poking fun at. You just have to decide who's story you actually trust more, despite everyone's mistakes, and despite the fact that there's more or less an unqualified narcissist currently in charge. Everyone knows that, and they're dealing with it day to day. It's supposed to be about what the people believe in, or want, but there's always more to the picture because the picture can't be seen in it's entirety, at any given moment.

Also, Kim poisoned his decent standing bro(ther). What does that say about his character? Should SK trust his word?

I wouldn't?

Matador said:

Is it really?
That was 1 month after being sworn in.
or:
There were like 50 more but I don't think I need to include all of them to make the point.

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It is no secret that President Trump dislikes the media.

My point is the media dislikes him so much it distorts their logic. How can they rationally criticize him for agreeing to sit down and talk with Un, then flip-flop to criticize him for cancelling.

Sorry I thought this pattern of behavior was obvious (i.e. anything he does must be wrong). I guess not.  :

JR

My gut instincts tell me the media has chosen to hone in on the virtues of common decency and honesty. Unrelentingly.

Also, it seems 'the entire world' has more or less chosen that too.

Apart from fox news.

...and I still don't think he's actually earned the 'Presidential' title. He's just reciting someone else's words.

Script said:

I know where I live and am aware what's at stake should that one blow up.

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Yes, little rocket man was sending missiles over Japanese territory to stir the pot.

I'd say let the two Koreas sort it out between themselves first. That's also what their people what. The rest will sure follow...

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As I have shared before a re-unified Korea, not unlike east/west Germany could be a win-win, but not without some work and much investment to make up for decades of neglect.

A forcefully divided country is a very deep scar that I assume takes more than one generation to heal -- probably two, maybe even three.

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there is much history between all the regional players (I certainly don't need to tell you that).

Anyway, the older I get the more I feel that pessimism is an utter waste of time. I have started to lack patience for that.

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we can't keep kicking this can down the road now that Un has his own nuclear capability. While modest, big enough to make someplace radioactive for decades(?). 

Hiroshima? Clearly more than one side to that one, but I lack patience to discuss. Anyone who wants to explain Nagasaki? I'd be interested in hearing that one. Please feel free to shot...

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That genie can not be put back into the bottle. I decline to re-litigate WWII. The history of WWII is well discussed while certainly different perspectives exist. I read the popular history treatment "Killing the rising sun" and it explored the difficult decisions weighed by the leaders to end that war.

Any US citizen anywhere in the land of the free who seriously feels threatened by NK? :

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No one here with half a clue (thousands of miles away) is threatened, but the media tries to make it sound as scary as possible.  The actual physical threat is to nearby neighbors, while Un's saber rattling included targeting Guam (to poke us), which most Americans couldn't find Guam on a map. He could deliver a device to South Korea using a truck, and he has already demonstrated his ability to reach beyond Japan with a missile (while the likliehood of that being intercepted is significant).

The real international threat is him selling weapons technology to other bad actors around the world to raise funding for his hermit kingdom. We are past the time for "strategic patience" (have been for decades IMO).  I am not very optimistic, but see more movement now than we have for several administrations. I suspect our trade talks with China include N Korea as the elephant in the room, since only China (or China's support) can reign Un in without war.

As I have also shared before our(?) mishandling of Gaddafi in Libya after he abandoned his nuclear ambitions sent the completely wrong message to tyrants around the world. Un is not stupid or crazy,  so unlikely to leave himself similarly exposed.

JR

scott2000 said:

Maybe we'll all be able to take a vote on it if Elon  follows through......

Elon Musk wants to rate journalists. He'd call his site 'Pravda

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Maybe Elon is joking again..? (He did tweet that he was going bankrupt  ).

"Pravda" was the name of the official newspaper of the communist party in the old Soviet Union, until it collapsed in 1991.  So Pravda was the poster boy for unreliable world news. When I was a kid I listened to short wave radio and radio Moscow was always loud and strong, as well as radio Cuba, broadcasting their "version"  : of world news. Why were Russian and Cuban radio broadcasts in english targeting N. America? Interfering with democracy (or trying to) has been going on for many decades. FWIW we also had "Voice of America" broadcasts targeting their homelands. So nothing new going on here and both sides believed they were spreading truth.  :-[

http://money.cnn.com/2018/05/23/technology/elon-musk-media/index.html


On second thought.....maybe it's a pointless exercise

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News is not a popularity contest while I see a lot of opinion and spin passing for objective reportage. Some cable channels are locked into a positive feedback loop catering to narrow selective audiences. Fox news and MSNBC are pretty much polar opposites on the political continuum.  This doesn't automatically make the news from either fake, but certainly selectively presented to please one audience, both audiences will not enjoy the same stuff.

FB and social media are fighting for their (corporate) lives to restore trust in their veracity. I have even seen TV ads from FB. 

There is subtle and not to subtle opinion wrangling in the newspaper headlines I see that are not always supported by the editorial in the article's copy. But that is why we need to develop our own windage to calibrate what was see and read to our world view which is also somewhat subjective (and read the entire articles for hidden pearls).

In the meanwhile technology makes what we "see" less reliable these days, putting a few more jokers into the deck..

JR

Yes, little rocket man was sending missiles over Japanese territory to stir the pot
[...]
his ability to reach beyond Japan with a missile (while the likliehood of that being intercepted is significant).
[...]
As I have shared before a re-unified Korea, not unlike east/west Germany could be a win-win

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However, only the last two rockets were clearly meant as a message to the US. There were several others before that. Anyway, Japan had refrained from using the Iron Dome on the second of those last two missiles -- once the trajectory was clear. I wonder why (meaning, I don't). As much as I'd like to see a reunified Korea, if they really want it, I'd say it could just as easily be a win-win even without reunification.

The real international threat is him selling weapons technology to other bad actors around the world [...]

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To be honest, I really don't feel threatened by that at all.

###

The history of WWII is well discussed while certainly different perspectives exist. I read the popular history treatment "Killing the rising sun" and it explored the difficult decisions weighed by the leaders to end that war.

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I wouldn't really call that a history book proper -- as little as I'd call Michael Moore's productions research in politology and sociology. Still maybe a good book for everyone interested in the official US (and as of today among US citizens still slightly majority-held) justification for dropping the bombs.

The opposite of that book is President Obama visiting and holding a speech in Hiroshima in 2016. Paired with the Emperor's visit to the Phillippines the same year and his private apology to the Phillippine King for war atrocities committed by the Japanese Imperial Army. Both incidences weigh heavy in my books today, also because they preceed the current events between NK and SK.

+1
Yes, I'd really love to hear anything about that from them directly too.

Are there any? They're not allowed internet!