buildafriend

Hey guys,

I'm in the market for an LCR meter. What are you using??

All the best,


Re: Economically Priced LCR Meters for Audio Technology Applications
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2018, 01:55:14 PM »
I got myself a digital bridge XJW01 off ebay. I made a proper set of test leads myself re-using the original kelvin clips and this improved accuracy  and helped it to zero out better  . Test frequencies are 100hz,1khz and 7.8khz. Theres two versions available one in a plastic desktop case (with internal transformer psu)the other more portable and housed in an all aluminium enclosure which is battery powered . The screen displays all the parameters you need on each range so theres very little button pressing involved . I did buy a packet of new plastic buttons and ended up fitting the grey ones ,to loose that 'Noddy in toy town' feel the multi coloured ones gave it . Great little machine for the price and well worth considering , the other option is the DER-5000 ,similar money ,but more in a multimeter style case . There was a thread on the DER-5000 that seemed to say input protection wasnt great and the unscreened case potentially lets interference in . The XJW01 is all through hole components ,which in the case of high voltage misadventures might make it easier to repair too .

scott2000

Re: Economically Priced LCR Meters for Audio Technology Applications
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2018, 02:43:05 PM »
Been using a Vici DM4070 for a while....Seems pretty good but I'm not really doing anything critical yet so, who knows........The lower pf range seems goofy sometimes but, I can usually interpret it enough...Reads resistance real well under an ohm....... Where my handheld Fluke falls pretty short...but I guess this is expected.....


Re: Economically Priced LCR Meters for Audio Technology Applications
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2018, 03:08:04 PM »
Yeah the Kelvin connected leads excel at low range ohm and cap pF measurements , it can cancel the lead resistance and the stray capacitance ,and give much more accurate results than simple two wire connection as found in most multimeters.

scott2000

Re: Economically Priced LCR Meters for Audio Technology Applications
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2018, 03:21:00 PM »
Yeah the Kelvin connected leads excel at low range ohm and cap pF measurements , it can cancel the lead resistance and the stray capacitance ,and give much more accurate results than simple two wire connection as found in most multimeters.

So replacing my LCR meter's clips will help??

That's pretty great...Thanks!

Re: Economically Priced LCR Meters for Audio Technology Applications
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2018, 04:12:52 PM »
Hi Scott,
Well ,the leads that came with the XJW01 werent the greatest quality ,and they werent very flexible , what I found was that after you calibrate the leads and you dsconnect one  ,you get a reading for the capacitance of that lead , if you do that in turn for each lead ,you start to see that there could be several pf's difference in each lead , this will scew the readings on the meter ,by a certain amount . When I made my new leads I used high quality cable ,very precisely measured ,in  lenght ,and capacitance , in other words the more accurate your cables ,the more accurate the reading from the meter is . The original cables entered the probe clips on one side , which meant that one of the two cables to each probe was longer than the other ,that in turn means higher resistance and capacitance ,so calibration doesnt zero out the bridge so well .

I just had a look at the Vici ,the bananna leads certainly wont have Kelvin connection ,however the little slots will most likely ,each leg of your component makes contact with two terminals in those slots , so for low resistance or capacitance measurements that will probably be more accurate than the crocclip/bannana leads . It might be possible to rig the vici for four wire , have a quick check on the DER-5000 and you can see they provide an adapter ,a few people have rewired these for four wire Kelvin connection ,and just got rid of the two crock clips. Im lately doing up another set of test cables for mine ,this time I'm using  two mini spring clip/hooks glued together for each pair of wires,and keeping the cables short and as well balanced as possible . Photo below isnt great ,but hopefully give you the idea what Im on about .

Re: Economically Priced LCR Meters for Audio Technology Applications
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2018, 04:23:08 PM »
And heres one of the original kelvin clips ,with new high quality cable and bnc connectors .

Just in case anyone was wondering ,I filed the sides of the hook/clip probe at an angle so there was some surface for them to sit side by side ,I then dropped a small amount of super glue in the gap ,then I sprinkled on some baking soda ,that reacts with the superglue and bonds the plastic very strongly . Its neat trick that comes in very handy at times .
« Last Edit: May 28, 2018, 04:38:29 PM by Tubetec »

buildafriend

Re: Economically Priced LCR Meters for Audio Technology Applications
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2018, 05:22:37 PM »
Hey thanks Tubetec  8) I think I might test my luck on a  XJW01. For $75 plus shipping this tool doesn't seem to shabby.. Are there any real objections against this tool? I'm okay with being 1 or 2 picofarads off for my purposes.. Any problems with the L function? I want to wrap my head around "test speed in times per second" Is this the amount of tests it performs per second? It would be nice if it tested up to 1G Ohm for mic repairs..

Here are the specs for anyone who's too lazy to look it up..

L,C,R,D,Q,ESR
Basic accuracy 0.3%-0.5%
Equivalent circuit - Series
Range Mode - Auto
Test Speed - Fast: 2.5, medium : 2, Slow: 1 (times / sec.)
Calibration function - Auto
Test terminal configuration - The BNC test line
Display - 2004 LCD
Test signal - Test signal frequency 100Hz, 1kHz,7.831kHz -
Test signal level - 1.75Vrms(max)

R - 0.0002 Ω — 9.999 MΩ
C - 0.1 pF — 10000uF or more
L - 0.01 μH — 1000 H
D,Q - 0.001 — 9999

buildafriend

Re: Economically Priced LCR Meters for Audio Technology Applications
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2018, 05:27:56 PM »
Here's the skinny on "The Vici"

1. Measures Capacitance 0.1 pF ~ 2000 uF; Inductance 0.1uH ~ 20H; Resistance 0.01ohm ~ 20Mohm;

2. Resolution: Capacitance 0.1 pF; Inductance 0.1uH; Resistance 0.01ohm;

3. Simultaneous 1999 count display of the primary parameter (L, C or R)

4. Test frequencies of 1kHz

5. Selectable Parallel or Series equivalent circuit

6. Ideal for testing SMD type components.

7. Sampling rate: 0~ 5s

8. Open and Short Zero removes unwanted stray impedances from the measurement

9. Auto power off when stop working for 20 minutes.

10. Self-discharge for capacitance test

11. Powered by 9V battery; Low battery Indication.

12. Comes with test leads, 9V battery and protective holster.

scott2000

Re: Economically Priced LCR Meters for Audio Technology Applications
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2018, 05:55:49 PM »
hopefully give you the idea what Im on about .
Very cool! Thanks!

....Definitely going to look into this.....

Here's the skinny on "The Vici"

1. Measures Capacitance 0.1 pF ~ 2000 uF; Inductance 0.1uH ~ 20H; Resistance 0.01ohm ~ 20Mohm;


The 2000uf is pretty frustrating I must say......
« Last Edit: May 28, 2018, 06:04:34 PM by scott2000 »


Re: Economically Priced LCR Meters for Audio Technology Applications
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2018, 06:11:48 PM »
I suppose really the only downside I can think of with this unit is that it doesnt have the slots you can stick the component legs down ,because its bnc . Of course for measuring in circuit components , cables are most convienient anyway  . I have some 0.1 % tolerance resistors which were measured on very accurate equipment and labeled to four digits ,the XJW01 measures these very very close to the labeled value . 1% styrene caps measured bang on as well , Inductance wise I dont have any tight tollerance components to benchmark it with ,but any inductors I have measured certainly measured closely enough to the marked values  . Of course at different frequencies 100hz,1khz and 7.8khz you will see some variation in inductance on the same component,but thats to be expected . Also from what Ive learned from CJ ,being able to measure transformer inductances at 50hz is more preferable ,so thats maybe another slight downside to this unit  , in any case a sig gen ,multimeter and some basic math and you can measure at any frequency you like. I chose the alloy cased  version with batteries over the mains powered unit mainly for convience ,electrically their identical but I'd imagine the metal box sheilds out EMi and Rf induced garbage that could throw accuracy off . I would recommend at least replacing the cables if not for accuracy sake ,then just to have  more supple cables ,just makes it nicer to use really .


buildafriend

Re: Economically Priced LCR Meters for Audio Technology Applications
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2018, 06:53:44 PM »
Tubetec - I would love to read what you're talking about that explains 50 Hz testing

scott2000 - That would put me in a bit of a pickle at times too. Above 2000uF is not too rare in our applications

ruairioflaherty

Re: Economically Priced LCR Meters for Audio Technology Applications
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2018, 06:54:22 PM »
I'm in the market for an LCR meter. What are you using??

I use an Instek LCR-819 which I like a lot.  It was probably $2k new but I paid a lot less than that used - http://www.gwinstek.com/en-global/products/Discontinued_Products/Discontinued_Meters_LCR/LCR-800

The "industry standard" affordable LCR meter is the DER EE 5000.  There are quite a few variants available and tons on info on www.eevblog.com/forum

https://www.deree.com.tw/de-5000-lcr-meter.html

Re: Economically Priced LCR Meters for Audio Technology Applications
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2018, 07:04:56 PM »
Hmmm ,I cant point you directly to the post CJ spoke about this  50hz measurement technique ,but maybe you can search through his posts and dig it out , a search on posts relating to transformer winding will Im sure reveal something . There was also great links to books on transformer winding which you might find in the documents section .

Re: Economically Priced LCR Meters for Audio Technology Applications
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2018, 07:07:56 PM »
Hi Ruairi ,
I sent you a mail the other day when the site was down , my guess is you had an inbox stacked full of G'diy'ers wondering what was happening , anyway all back to normal now again  ::)

buildafriend

Re: Economically Priced LCR Meters for Audio Technology Applications
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2018, 08:30:38 PM »
I use an Instek LCR-819 which I like a lot.  It was probably $2k new but I paid a lot less than that used - http://www.gwinstek.com/en-global/products/Discontinued_Products/Discontinued_Meters_LCR/LCR-800

The "industry standard" affordable LCR meter is the DER EE 5000.  There are quite a few variants available and tons on info on www.eevblog.com/forum

https://www.deree.com.tw/de-5000-lcr-meter.html

Your LCR meter is really nice and accurate. I'm jealous.
https://assets.techedu.com/assets/1/26/Documents/Instek/LCR_816/lcr_816_doc_1.pdf

The specs presented for the XJW01 seem hard to beat for price. It's so cheap it could nearly be considered expendable.. Specs for it are listed above. DER EE 5000 isn't much more money though. It has a mF range which is nice. I'm not fully sure of how accurate is is in very low C ranges when compared with the XJW01.. I attached the specs of the DER EE 5000. Tough choice for only a $20 difference.


buildafriend

Re: Economically Priced LCR Meters for Audio Technology Applications
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2018, 08:35:44 PM »
general specs for EE 5000

buildafriend

Re: Economically Priced LCR Meters for Audio Technology Applications New
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2018, 10:15:35 PM »
XJW01 arrived today. It has a pretty robust case. I'm warming up to it and searching for the best version of the manual and calibration procedure. As far as I can tell it's - as the name implies an auto LCR. It detected the leads and zeros at the push of a button. It gave me resistance without needing to push any buttons. Beyond that I still have some figuring out to do before I can fly with it. I have the small bag of R's for calibration.

I'm taking my info hunting over to here.  If the link doesn't work try copying and pasting the URL into your browser.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/xjw01-auto-lcr-meter-review-($120-bench-top-lcr-meter)/

All the best,
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 10:20:54 AM by buildafriend »


 

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