Roseanne Barr(ed)

Whew, career suicide via social media ,
Cant say I ever warmed to the woman myself , in fact Id run a country mile, jump a stile ,land in a pile of sh1.t and keep on running before Id touch her pancakes ,but I can understand her appeal to a certain segment of American women . Sanofi Aventis's rebuke /damage limitation exercise was good though ,'We acknowledge medications have side effects ,but as far as we know  racist outbursts have never been caused by our products or words to that effect.  Even King Donald was powerless to pardon her in the end .

she is well with in her right to say whatever she wants. She is also in her right to suffer any consequences from saying those things.

I find it funny that hollywood was so quick to fire her, yet people like weinstein took years before getting fired.  double standard?

For me the main difference is Weinstein was accused, so trying some kind of defense was legit.

If he would post on twitter “I’m a proud rapist piece of sh*t” then both cases would be the more or less the same.

I remember watching old Roseanne series in tv after lunch every summer being a kid, I always hated that mediocrity’s proud I felt coming from the show.

Disney broke ties with Weinstein's company after his scandal broke:

https://variety.com/2017/film/news/harvey-weinstein-disney-artemis-fowl-1202587666/

Rosanne was always a risk taking comedian who said shocking things, over several decades to get noticed.

The old TV show was not very good, but popular enough to run for years. There is some nostalgia for seeing many of the old characters.  They addressed current topics in the new show (opioid addiction, underemployment, gender identity, and probably a few I missed.). It was refreshing to present a show that wasn't in lockstep with liberal/progressive hollywood.  Reportedly they have been thinking of bringing back the conservative tinged "Last Man Standing" Tim Allen comedy. At least they were, probably based on the success of Roseanne's show.

Roseanne sh__ the bed with that tweet and free speech still has consequences. The sad part is the hundreds of workers also out of a good job.

There is indeed hypocritical asymmetry in the response to liberals and conservatives showing their a__. Of course that does not excuse Roseanne. She clearly has some problem if she even thinks that, let alone tweets it. Drinking (and Ambien?) didn't make her racist, but may have lowered her inhibitions enough to show here true inner self on twitter. AFAIK Samantha Bee has not been fired for her ugly monologue which is consistent with how her side treats such events. IIRC Cathy Griffin lost her CNN gig, but now is defending Samantha B, perhaps hoping for a few more seconds of celebrity.

Regarding Weinstein, I observed when his drama first gained traction with the public after the #metoo movement (that was helped by the Bill Cosby case), that NYC didn't have statute of limitations on such crimes so Weinstein was exposed to indictment and perhaps jail time for his bad behavior (you heard it here first).

Weinstein's casting couch behavior was an open secret and even publicly joked about at hollywood awards shows. Seth MacFarlane joked in 2013 at the Oscars awards show after announcing 5 starlets for some award category, that they "no longer have to pretend to be attracted to Harvey Weinstein"  ;D.  In 2013 he was offsides from mainstream hollywood where Weinstein was still feared, but now after Weinstein's fall it has become cliche for liberal/progessive comedians to pile on, a day late and a dollar short.

JR

PS: Quite by accident I sold my Disney stock days before this recent Rosanne flap... I was more concerned about their ESPN problems, better to be lucky than good.  8)

Tubetec said:

Whew, career suicide via social media ,
Cant say I ever warmed to the woman myself , in fact Id run a country mile, jump a stile ,land in a pile of sh1.t and keep on running before Id touch her pancakes ,but I can understand her appeal to a certain segment of American women . Sanofi Aventis's rebuke /damage limitation exercise was good though ,'We acknowledge medications have side effects ,but as far as we know  racist outbursts have never been caused by our products or words to that effect.  Even King Donald was powerless to pardon her in the end .

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Sanofi said "racism" was not a known side effect. Racist outbursts could come from a closet racist under the influence of hypnotic medication (combined with alcohol).

Ambiens list of side effects is a little scary:
========
Rapid heartbeat
Nausea
Vomiting
Diarrhea
Loss of appetite
Impaired vision
Slow breathing rates
Muscle cramps
Allergic reactions
Memory loss
Inability to concentrate
Disorientation
Emotional blunting
Depression and/or suicidal thoughts (like career suicide?)
Anxiety
Insomnia
Nightmares
Sedation
Confusion
Dizziness
Aggression
Addiction
Withdrawal, which can be life-threatening
=========
Over the decades ambien has been around we have heard many amusing, and not so amusing anecdotes of things people have done under the influence.  (Again not an excuse).

JR

PS: reportedly President Trump is considering pardoning Martha Stewart who was sent to prison for misstatements to the government.  I'd like to see what happens if those in government faced prison time for lying to us.  This may be another subtle message for federal prosecutors, or just taking care of past apprentices (like Blagovich too)..

JohnRoberts said:

AFAIK Samantha Bee has not been fired for her ugly monologue which is consistent with how her side treats such events.

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These are 100000000000000000000000000000000000% not the same thing: not even remotely comparable by any stretch of the imagination.

There is a difference between being racist and being rude.  There is a difference between calling a *person* a name, and using a comparison that denigrated and repressed an entire class of people for hundreds of years against someone *of that very race* that was denigrated.  There is a difference between 'punching up' and 'punching down'.  To try and conflate the two together speaks to the desperation of the right to say anything other than condemning the words themselves.

And by "the right" I'm not talking about you specifically John.  See the distinction?

Matador said:

These are 100000000000000000000000000000000000% not the same thing: not even remotely comparable by any stretch of the imagination.

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I do not recall saying they were exactly the same thing, just another sundry example of overtly ugly speech, that gets tolerated as normal by some audiences.  (Ironically perhaps) Pres Trump has been blamed for the Rosanne tweet because he supposedly "normalized" racism. 

I do not care to debate degrees of how bad one statement is vs others, they are all bad.

There is a difference between being racist and being rude.  There is a difference between calling a *person* a name, and using a comparison that denigrated and repressed an entire class of people for hundreds of years against someone *of that very race* that was denigrated.  There is a difference between 'punching up' and 'punching down'.  To try and conflate the two together speaks to the desperation of the right to say anything other than condemning the words themselves.

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one distinction I have heard offered (coming from a conservative/libertarian perspective) is that when the right hears something ugly they say that is "wrong". When the left hears something ugly they say that is "evil". Apparently declaring an entire group evil, gives license to do whatever it takes to attack and diminish them.

And by "the right" I'm not talking about you specifically John.  See the distinction?

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Not sure? Hopefully I am treated as an individual here because I am pretty well known on this forum. Like most I was born liberal, and living for decades in the real world has informed me to be more conservative/libertarian. I do not care to join parties or attach labels, but if the shoe fits. I am offended by all the sweeping generalizations and attacks in modern media. (One lady on FB called me a drummer.  ).

I am a big boy and can hold my own, but these days I pretty much ignore some forum members who are more about heat than light, and do not engage in thoughtful arguments. I certainly do not search out belittlement, or even contention, while an echo chamber must be boring as hell. (One thing I appreciate about this forum is the diversity of viewpoints from our international members, due to their different life experiences.)

We are in the middle of a sweeping cultural shift, first energized by the Bill Cosby trial, which is a shame because he played a positive role model on TV for decades, and as himself, publicly made constructive criticisms about the black community. He is now thrown under the bus because of his sexual indiscretions, but that is the way the cookie crumbles when you get caught doing bad stuff. The larger cultural shift is the #metoo movement forcing people to stop ignoring bad behavior by powerful people. We are still in the early days for this trend, and there will be many more scalps on the wall before this is over. This very common abuse of power has been going on as long as power has been accumulated by individuals so lots of skeletons in many closets to discover.

One amusing recent joke was Tyler Perry being accused by Medea of sexual misconduct  : (Tyler Perry is Medea), but like way too many powerful/wealthy people he has an all too real $10M lawsuit to deal with.   

JR

It was reported Bee lost two sponsors over her tweet will more follow?

Now suppose what bee said was said about obama's daughters. Would the reaction be the same?

As far as the spark that set bee off there has been policy on that since 2008. Check up on atep which was separating family and had a height of inforcement in 2011.

According to this study drinking makes people more conservative:

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0146167212439213

Which obviosuly isn't to say conservatives are necessarily racist, but there is a strong correlation with explicit biases, of course...

living sounds said:

According to this study drinking makes people more conservative:

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0146167212439213

Which obviosuly isn't to say conservatives are necessarily racist, but there is a strong correlation with explicit biases, of course...

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Well I guess that explains me... :

Seriously??
=====
100 years ago this was considered normal behavior in some communities, and 100 years from now people won't even understand what we are talking about.

A few ten thousand years ago it was perfectly normal to distrust and often kill outsiders who looked different, so these are cave man era instincts that have been socialized out of us because they became no longer useful, but may have been useful once back far enough.

This identity politics is a tool or strategy to keep us occupied fighting with each other so we don't see the man behind the curtain manipulating the levers of power.

JR

scott2000 said:

I was Researching prostate cancer for my father and it really opened my eyes to the different biases that have to be taken into account regarding the various studies relating to treatments both new and old. The removal vs treatment debate has been around a long time and many studies have been brought to light.

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as and old man hoping to get a little older, with numerous close relatives already dead from cancer I pay attention.

As with all cancers not all prostate cancers are the same..  Some are fast growing and need to be treated, some are very slow growing and you dad will likely die from something else before his prostate takes him down.

I will speculate he has already used PSA test, which only reveals markers, and is not completely reliable.

If he has symptoms (besides the normal old man enlarged prostate) consider a biopsy to get a better handle on the nature of that particular tumor.  If it is fast growing and likely to spread get it removed, if slow growing and not considered dangerous, maybe drink an extra beer every night.

There are debates within the medical community about even testing for prostate cancer (those needy males  : ). Some men are so afraid of cancer they will go under the knife even if not really at risk, exposing themselves to complications and other unintended consequences from an unnecessary surgical procedure (in a recreational area).

Good luck maybe find a competent oncologist who doesn't profit from cutting everybody he meets.

The last large recent study I read had to conclude that there needs to be more studies because there was no certainty that could be drawn because of all of the factors involved. It was pretty complex and extremely disheartening to come away more educated but less certain than I was before.....Except the certainty of realizing  The staggering ties to Pharma and the various practitioners and fields of study.....Of course radiology had it's sources and surgeons had theirs......etc....

ok......just a quick look......\\


2 Authors from University of Arkansas,1 from University of Kansas, and 1 from University of Wisconsin....

Wisconsin????

Donna Edna Shalala (/ʃəˈleɪlə/ shə-LAY-lə; born February 14, 1941) was the United States Secretary of Health and Human Services under President Bill Clinton from 1993 to 2001. She was the president of the University of Miami, a private university in Coral Gables, Florida, from 2001 through 2015. Previously she was the chancellor of the University of Wisconsin-Madison from 1988 to 1993. She was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom the nation's highest civilian honor by President George W. Bush in June 2008. Shalala currently serves as Trustee Professor of Political Science and Health Policy at the University of Miami, and had been President of the Clinton Foundation until March


I'm too lazy to look for any ties to Arkansas or Kansas......

I'm not racist just to be clear......and I haven't had a beer in a couple of weeks so..... Not sure what point I'm trying to make.....

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I don't expect racist people to consider themselves racist, in fact racism is predominantly in the eyes of external beholders.

I'm sure my borderline racist neighbors don't consider themselves racist, while after thirty years living down here they still consider me a damn yankee.  :

JR

scott2000 said:

Yeah....He's an 11psa ,,,,,had biopsy .....mostly 4 gleason but with a large section 0f  8...... Hasn't spread.......

That's why I was looking for the treatment studies....

One neighbor has had it all done.....removal....then got cancer in kidneys....radiation....then cancer spread multiple areas......he's on chemo now while suppressing testosterone......Just waiting for the suppression to quit working.....Sad because he's my Dad's age......

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We all die... men often get prostrate cancer (the mirror image of breast cancer in women), its a hormone thing.

Yup testosterone promotes growth but when worried about cancer you don't want to promote growth. The big drug companies did research into increasing testosterone output as a miracle youth drug, but bailed when they saw the correlation with higher cancer rates.  The less disciplined (and shallow pockets) supplement business are happy to promote testosterone production, what's the worst that could happen? (death  : )

BTW does your dad have male pattern baldness? Often a symptom of high natural testosterone output. 

If we live long enough to not die of a heart attack, or auto accident, we die from the big C.  :'( You have to die from something, while my dear, almost 90 YO neighbor, died from general systemic failure (RIP)..  I planned to die in a firey car crash while drunk driving home at high speed, decades ago... It turns out I was too good of a driver to go out that way...  i need a new plan.  :

Again good luck. I appreciate we don't want to rely on luck when it comes to cancer, but there is much we still do not know.

JR

The male hormone thing is very complicated and few regular doctors understand it, The problem is the symptoms vary wildly. In my own case I was diagnosed as depressed and fed all sorts of different drugs and given cognitive behaviour therapy  to try to make me happy again but none worked. I then happened to read an article in the newspaper about the male menopause and the symptoms were an extraordinary match with my own. I saw my doctor and persuaded him to let me have a blood test for testosterone level. He reluctantly agreed and his parting shot was 'We are not like France where even if your testosterone level is a little low you get hormone replacement therapy' He had to eat his words because when the results came back my testosterone levels were clinically low. I got to see a consultant who sent me for a brain scan and which showed I have a shrunken pituitary. Further tests showed my pituitary was not sending the right hormones to my testes which were consequently pretty much idle. For more than ten years have have taken testosterone every day and I feel  more or less normal. I have to have a regular blood test because high testosterone levels can lead to prostate cancer. Looks like I am walking a tightrope here..

Cheers

Ian

Cheers

Ian

She was quite the musican as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls1YVhcLD2c

JohnRoberts said:

A few ten thousand years ago it was perfectly normal to distrust and often kill outsiders who looked different, so these are cave man era instincts that have been socialized out of us because they became no longer useful, but may have been useful once back far enough.

This identity politics is a tool or strategy to keep us occupied fighting with each other so we don't see the man behind the curtain manipulating the levers of power.

JR

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Well, yes. Modern history is a tale of successive substitution of nature with second nature. Progressives try to accelerate that, conservatives resist it. It's not only xenophobia, it's a long, long list of build-in behaviours that we actively change.

Implicit biases accompany even the most liberal among us. What divides people (along a continuum) is the degree to which we are trying to overcome our biases and prevent implicit biases from becoming explicit biases.

The universalist project is currently under thread because of several factors, namely rising inequality, recent societal changes (like gay marriage) and the insuing backlash, an influx of people of different ethnicity, the (perceived) thread of terrorism and a change in t he media marked that brought in new types of media that are not yet properly regulated.

There's no need a for "man behind a curtain". Conflict is inevitable given the circumstances. I just hope we can overcome the current situation without a real crisis this time.

scott2000 said:

The African American guy had spelled my Spanish American  wife's name wrong and the other White American guy, texted, yeah, that's because Black people can't spell...... The African American guy retorted with something like ,well that's how you sent it to me so it's White People who can't.....and I was just shocked that this kind of rhetoric was still going on among adults because these two were best friends...

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Probably it was because they are good friends and written in good humor. Sounds to me like they got to make fun of racist stereotypes together. A good thing.

It has transpired that not only the kind and amount of food you eat has relevance for the growth of cancer, but also when you eat it. We generally eat much more often than is good for our bodys.

https://hope4cancer.com/blog/healing-cancer-on-time-how-intermittent-fasting-may-help/

living sounds said:

There's no need a for "man behind a curtain". Conflict is inevitable given the circumstances. I just hope we can overcome the current situation without a real crisis this time.

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Just another iconic cliche used as shorthand for manipulation of mass audiences.

I too remain optimistic that humans will craft a better world, but sometimes it looks like we are closer to our caves than condos.

JR 

scott2000 said:

No....He has a full head.....No symptoms either....Just found out during regular checkup he had psa levels around 4.....told him to wait 6 months....11.......

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That is another pet peeve of mine with the medical community, they invented the kick it down the road and wait to see what develops... if not dead come back in 6 months and we'll look again.  Once cancer metastasizes and spreads you are talking major problems. I have watched too many die (siblings, parents, neighbors, etc).

I wish I knew which way he should address it. He's already leaning radiation with follow up treatments to treat just outside the prostate where it's mostly worse, along with a lifetime of hormone suppression.....he's leaning because he just talked to the radio oncologist....

he sees the surgical one in a few weeks.....From what I've gathered from people who know the surgeon, he will push removal....

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yup, if thats the only tool in your tool kit and primary source of income you will want to cut.  That does not mean removal is wrong, just suggests a bias.

...If the radiation is so good, why the "just in case" we'll treat some other areas outside the prostate (they say because there may be micro cancer that isn't detected) and then hormone suppression? Suppression for what??? How will they ever know with skewed PSA from this.....Doesn't make sense.....

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BTW I am not a doctor so take everything I offer with a huge salt lick sized grain of salt.

Hormone suppression is probably to suppress new growth. Cancer grows faster than typical human tissue but can be more fragile with marginal blood supply and normal infrastructure. Radiation and chemo (poison) kills human cells too, but cancer being weaker (like a fast growing weed with no roots) hopefully dies first. 

I think removal is the obvious choice //////they can study it close up while it's out and, if any psa levels are questionable from there, it can't be the prostate........with radiation, any psa levels that are concerning after.....they could end up wasting time in the prostate when in fact it may be somewhere else.....plus the testosterone suppression will just confuse things...

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PSA is only useful for early detection and can be affected by treatments, a biopsy of the tumor should tell the doctor what they need to know about it, but of course nothing is perfect.

My neighbor who has exhausted all means, has a low .5 psa level that would indicate no problem, but it's the hormone suppression keeping his stage 4 cancer that's everywhere at these levels....That's not success to me.....or him.....

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My brother survived for 5+ years after being diagnosed with gut cancer which is remarkable compared to another cousin a decade earlier who only lived 6 months with gut cancer, but they spent a lot of money on my brother and he still died.  I only know one cancer survivor that I can think of (he survived a childhood tumor removal).

Anyway, my Dad has been eating lots of raw fruits and vegetables thankfully because I asked him to change his diet immediately.... I don't know about all of the studies out there but .....

it can't hurt him to try something while waiting....He actually was able to quit taking his blood pressure medication over the last two weeks just from trying to eat clean for a short time.......

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Sadly while my sister was dying of cancer she got religion about diet and tried to give me some of the same advice I had been  giving her for decades, but that is how it is with siblings who rather fight than ever agree about anything. I just bit my tongue and said good advice sis. 

So sorry for the thread derail guys!!!! ........

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Sorry about your personal human drama.... tell your dad you love him and get him the best care you can. Don't listen to punters on the WWW (including me). Cancer treatment is a $100B+ business and doesn't have the same marketing rules as medicine so caveat emptor.

I lost my father to cancer back in the 50s, so have been following it for a very long time.

Prostate cancer is survivable so good luck.

JR