abbey road d enfer

Re: Building acoustic treatment on a budget
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2018, 02:07:00 AM »
Foam seems like the most convenient though.
I agree; and once you've included the cost of framing and covering fiberglass, foam makes sense. However, remember that you need mass for insulation.
There are foam suppliers that don't charge you like they did your studio design. Cost is around $50-100 per square meter.
This is a French supplier, but I don't doubt you can find one in your part of teh universe.
https://www.solutions-elastomeres.com/fr/mousse-alveolaire/329-mousse-pyramide-melamine-isolation-phonique.html

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Do egg crates actually work? I've heard varying opinions (and honestly I'd rather not start hoarding egg crates) ranging from that they're good, only work for 1000 Khz or so, or they do nothing.
They work somewhat; they don't absorb, they scatter. It makes reflections a little less prominent, which cleans out reverb, but it's all. They do not provide any insulation at all.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
Star ground is for electricians.


Mbira

Re: Building acoustic treatment on a budget
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2018, 08:49:01 PM »
A box (10 pieces) of OC703 around here in Austin is $110.  So each panel is around $11.  So a doubled up 2x4x4" panel with thin black fabric and plywood ends up costing less that $30 each.  So to give you an idea, to fully treat my 20'x20' studio with superchunks in each corner and 17 panels ended up costing me around $750 or so.   The most bang-for-my-buck money I have probably ever spent in my studio. 
Joel Laviolette

Rattletree   |  https://www.rattletree.com
The Rattletree School of Marimba | https://www.learnmarimba.com

Re: Building acoustic treatment on a budget
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2018, 07:52:24 AM »
The movable screens/frames  filled with rock wool work great ,hessian or sack cloth material can be used as a natural covering for the rock wool , there portable ,and you can adjust the angles to get better diffustion too.
In one studio I worked in the smaller of the two rooms was just a more or less square box ,flutter echo off the walls was really anoying ,a couple of screens helped break up the standing waves nicely ,again distance and depth from the walls allows you to tune it to some degree.

 Im thinking of trying a wooden shed with cavities in the walls filled with the pumped microbead insulation , it wont act to contain waves like concrete ,but it will very much reduce reflections ,the fact that the beads of insulation are seperate and not compressed into a sheet means they jump around and absorb vibrations turning it into heat ,its still bound to have some resonant bounce too in the low end ,absorber panels  and maybe a few book shelves strategically positioned might help  , I very much like the idea of the mesh reflection filter around the back of your condenser mics just to give a bit more freedom from odd slap back and other off axis anomilies ,Ive never tried one though ,maybe two of the screens another behind the head of the performer might work in problematic rooms too .Theres nothing worse than that 'time smear' a flutter echo causes to a sound source , for me localised movable baffles and screens can tame away almost any room anomaly ,or at very least stop much of it hitting the mic which is really what counts . Ive often used duvets and matresses to 'tent' a vocalist under domestic recording conditions ,a small single bedroom can work great ,a walk in wardrobe if its available can make a superb recording booth, and get you that radio studio 'dead' accoustic .

Sound insulation is a different matter completely ,thats a costly business ,especially in a retrofit situation .Theres a girl I know, a vocalist ,she converted a small free standing concrete garden shed into a wardrobe and dressing room ,its only about 6x6 feet ,because its at a distance from the main house and doors and windows are all double glazed , recordings with very low ambient noise,and no bleed are possible . finding creative solutions under non ideal conditions that really is quite a fun chalenge .

Re: Building acoustic treatment on a budget
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2018, 12:03:56 PM »
Looks like Owens Corning 703 is hard to find in Canada, so I either have to order it or substitute it for Roxuk Rock Wool. If anyone has used it, have any recommendations for the latter? An NRC chart I saw says the Safe'n'Sound marked stuff is good all around. Especially the 3"x24"x48" one.

totoxraymond

Re: Building acoustic treatment on a budget
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2018, 12:12:04 PM »
Any Rock wool would be good, but prefer the highest density you can find/afford. More density = better efficiency.

They tend to be sold in panels rather than big rolls. 3" thickness is very nice for bass traps / flat panel absorbers. But in my opinion, it'as a bit overkill for high/mid frenquencies. I bought 4cm (1,5") and put two panels where needed. But that's also because i could only find 4cm thick or 12cm(4") thick. And that was too thick.

Gold

Re: Building acoustic treatment on a budget
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2018, 01:04:26 PM »
I prefer the Safe and Sound density over 703 for DIY acoustics. I use Thermafiber SAFB. With 703 by the time you get enough up there is too much high frequency attenuation. It’s too good.

john12ax7

Re: Building acoustic treatment on a budget
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2018, 06:21:30 PM »
If you spend a lot of time in the room , especially if it's a bedroom, then you should also look into the health aspects and irritation of the various materials. It affects different people in different ways.

I treated my room with recycled cotton.

scott2000

Re: Building acoustic treatment on a budget
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2018, 06:32:25 PM »
I used the Safe and Sound and wrapped it first in some weed barrier fabric....Some black stuff....there are different types...just to limit any particles a bit more ...Then wrapped the fabric... ..this weed barrier is extremely tightly woven but just as breathable so I figured there wouldn't be much if any reflections because of it..... ,,,,Seems fine but, I wouldn't really know....

« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 06:38:28 PM by scott2000 »

Re: Building acoustic treatment on a budget
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2018, 07:48:50 PM »
If you spend a lot of time in the room , especially if it's a bedroom, then you should also look into the health aspects and irritation of the various materials. It affects different people in different ways.

I treated my room with recycled cotton.
Do you remember how much it cost? I've seen some panels made of things like old towels before. Did you buy bolts of cotton fabric, or do something similar?

scott2000

Re: Building acoustic treatment on a budget
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2018, 08:08:24 PM »
Do you remember how much it cost? I've seen some panels made of things like old towels before. Did you buy bolts of cotton fabric, or do something similar?

here's one company that does  recycled cotton panels....

https://www.soundproofcow.com/product/echo-absorber-acoustic-panel-natural-blend-2x2x4/?attribute_case-size=1&gdffi=d462e8110af047aba70108dac6bd4aa2&gdfms=35E42D8B115C44A58949E5123E7D1BC4&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvNPg3I3X3AIV3rjACh1LugSaEAQYAyABEgIXlfD_BwE


john12ax7

Re: Building acoustic treatment on a budget
« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2018, 02:45:03 AM »
Do you remember how much it cost? I've seen some panels made of things like old towels before. Did you buy bolts of cotton fabric, or do something similar?

I bought it at  the local lowes
https://m.lowes.com/pd/UltraTouch-77-52-sq-ft-Batt-Insulation-15-in-W-x-93-in-L/3731875

You do need to frame it.  I built stud walls 16" on center like you would for a house. Then it goes inside and finally the whole thing wrapped in fabric. I added feet to make them standing portable gobos.

It's a decent amount of labor and gets rather dusty,  but no itch, and less irritating imo than some other solutions.

One thing to note is that the cotton never fully expands to its stated thickness.  The 3.5" ends up at about 2.75". Go thicker if you can.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 02:50:39 AM by john12ax7 »

fazer

Re: Building acoustic treatment on a budget
« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2018, 06:34:58 AM »
The cotton is treated to avoid insect infestation.  I think with boron.  I also prefer the sound of it to fiberglass, as gold suggests.  More natural sounding.

john12ax7

Re: Building acoustic treatment on a budget
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2018, 06:15:45 PM »
For my home setup I'm thinking about doing a DIY type attack wall. Thick foam tubes sitting on mic stands.  Would be easily moveable / portable.

Can post some info when finished and see how it compares to the full on studio build.


buildafriend

Re: Building acoustic treatment on a budget
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2018, 05:37:16 PM »
Well, we don't have a dedicated section for acoustic design, so I think the best is to move it to the Drawing board.

Abby, can we add this? I am in the process of building a studio and recently wanted to start some topics on acoustics.. If not thanks regardless.

All the best,

Re: Building acoustic treatment on a budget
« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2019, 04:31:38 AM »
Bumping because I have a lot more money at this point. I would like to build a proper booth, but I'm planning to move from Ontario to Vancouver, BC (this move isn't anytime soon but it's what I'm saving up for) and it would be hard to bring a big booth with me, unless I shell out for some long distance moving service, and I don't want to spend something like $1000 building a small booth if I won't be able to bring it with me.

When I say I live in an apartment right now, it's actually a rented townhouse with a basement. So there is concrete down there, but the floor is also concrete and there's no carpeting down there. The insulation is covered with plastic covering, which is probably reflective as hell with all the concrete down there. I could probably clear out an area to record in, but it would only be something like 4'x6'x7' or so, and would be directly against a window, and there's a risk of picking up the sound of running water from the pipes, and external noise as well, though I'd like to hang heavy packing blankets up to mitigate that (like a couple layers against the window, I have 20 of those 5 lb 72"x80" moving blankets on hand).

Rockwool seems to be the most affordable stuff up here, @ about CAD $1/sq ft. (that's roughly $.75 USD), can it be used as effectively as the Owens Corning 703 insulation?

This would just be an area for recording vocal performance (mainly voiceovers and ADR for small projects)
« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 05:21:49 AM by Icantthinkofaname »

abbey road d enfer

Re: Building acoustic treatment on a budget
« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2019, 11:03:41 AM »
The insulation is covered with plastic covering, which is probably reflective as hell with all the concrete down there.
What kind of insulation? Since there's already insulation, I don't think you can do much to improve it. IMO you need treatment to deaden the space. It's a good candidate for foam, which you can re-use when you move.

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there's a risk of picking up the sound of running water from the pipes, and external noise as well, though I'd like to hang heavy packing blankets up to mitigate that (like a couple layers against the window, I have 20 of those 5 lb 72"x80" moving blankets on hand).
You can't do much for the pipe's noise, as it would take a lot of space to provide significant reduction, but the blankets for the window seem a good bet, and dampening treatment reduces the emergence of noise.

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Rockwool seems to be the most affordable stuff up here, @ about CAD $1/sq ft. (that's roughly $.75 USD), can it be used as effectively as the Owens Corning 703 insulation?
I wouldn't start thinking about stone wool in your case.

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This would just be an area for recording vocal performance (mainly voiceovers and ADR for small projects)
Most professional voice-over artists are used to working in very dead environment, close-miced and wearing headphones, so you should be good with foam.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
Star ground is for electricians.

Re: Building acoustic treatment on a budget
« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2019, 05:31:33 PM »
It's some sort of pink fiberglass insulation, but there's only about an inch and a bit thick of it on the walls, save for the back wall where the furnace is. I was thinking along with putting blankets by the window I'd put some up around me by attaching them to the ceiling (it's not a drop ceiling, it's just bare wood with the pipes visible, so there are a lot of beams I can clip stuff too) and some on the floor to make a sort of tent. Of course I don't know how well that'll actually work.

abbey road d enfer

Re: Building acoustic treatment on a budget
« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2019, 06:20:26 PM »
It's some sort of pink fiberglass insulation, but there's only about an inch and a bit thick of it on the walls, save for the back wall where the furnace is. I was thinking along with putting blankets by the window I'd put some up around me by attaching them to the ceiling (it's not a drop ceiling, it's just bare wood with the pipes visible, so there are a lot of beams I can clip stuff too) and some on the floor to make a sort of tent. Of course I don't know how well that'll actually work.
Presumably those heavy blankets would work as well as foam; not any significant isolation, but valuable treatment.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
Star ground is for electricians.

Re: Building acoustic treatment on a budget
« Reply #38 on: May 03, 2019, 01:47:31 AM »
Is there a really cheap concrete I could use if I were building an actual booth? Let's say something like 4'x6'8' with the exterior walls and some interior framing (where the concrete would then sit to make the interior walls) being some sort of plywood (probably spruce because it seems to be cheap here). Anybody have a rough idea what that would cost, it's $30 for a 1/2"x4'x8' here, and if possible I'd like to keep it as cheap as possible (ideally $700 or so, but that seems really optimistic to me).

Would concrete even be useful in a small booth, or would I need inches thick of it to actually have any isolation?

Once I move I'll probably be in an apartment (as in an actual apartment building, not a townhouse or duplex), so I would like to have some sort of isolation.

shabtek

Re: Building acoustic treatment on a budget
« Reply #39 on: May 03, 2019, 08:00:56 AM »
Concrete  brings mass and is reflective.
It is dusty and requires precautions when using. With desirable characteristic of being heavy, cost of transport is significant.
If doing concrete consider what is supporting that weight.
Drywall/gypsum construction might be more practical: Multiple decoupled layers.

"really fine players do not use stomp boxes or master volume, they match the amp to the room and turn it up to 11.  Stevie Ray, BB King, Albert King, Duane Allman, Dicky Betts, Louis Armstrong"
   -CJ


 

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