pretty familiar looking chart... in ideal world that onset of distortion caused by clipping would be a straight vertical line. Any slope there is perhaps an artifact of measurement. For example, tiny variation in test signal amplitude can make measureable difference in distortion at the margin, perhaps even a steep slope like shown.Rochey said:John,
this is what i'm talking about:
yes... and with noise still almost 80dB below -30dBFS signal is unlikely to be a problem.At high amplitudes, the THD swamps the N in the THD+N
As has already been shared, people saturate final mixes to raise the average loudness. As long as the clipping recovers cleanly (no burps or farts), and is limited to narrow transient events, the distortion added is HF and may even complement the transient impact. Where we get perceived audible distortion from clipping is when LF content clips, creating distortion products that are audible as distinct signals.My recommendation with customers designing audio systems is to only allow brief transients (where clarity etc isn't really a requirements) to enter that space.
Finally - I still don't understand why you would distort using the converters instead of in a post processing algorithm?
I recall an old attempt by dbx (IIRC) in a line of GEQ where the treated the MSB with some non-linear law... This was early days for digital, and mooted by modern convertors we have now.Script said:Which audio interfaces (equipped with which chips) are the ones that people think clip 'gracefully'? Just being curious.
I mean, what do they have/do in technical electronics terms, that other chips don't do?
Zander said:I didn’t read the whole thread. But I think what a lot of ME’s do is use the “overkill” protection/limiters in the convertors. At least I see the led indicators blinking when I do this in my Prism. There may be overshoot beyond that.
Yes, it is. I see now. I need to investigate the difference with and without the overkill in circuit. I will report back. ThanksEmRR said:Prism is a diode clipper isn't it? Very different sound from converter clipping.
pucho812 said:Doesn't that give you digital distortion ? or is it just a matter of over driving the Analog stages
Script said:Which audio interfaces (equipped with which chips) are the ones that people think clip 'gracefully'? Just being curious.
There is no good reason... the bad reason is to be louder.weiss said:i'm trying to understand this. why would one want to clip or limit before mastering?
JohnRoberts said:There is no good reason... the bad reason is to be louder.
JR
I've told this story (too) many times, but back when I was designing consoles I was diligent about providing clip detection at multiple points within each console strip. Some competitors were less diligent, spending the money they saved instead on advertising that they had more headroom. : Since a little clipping is not very noticeable**** that advertising had many consumers drinking their kool-aid and believing the lie. I was in the unpleasant position of appearing to have less headroom because of my honest representation of signal status. :-[user 37518 said:So many manufacturers are spending money on R&D, buying expensive equipment like an AP with extremely low residual distortion so they can squeeze the lowest distortion possible, they manufacture everything with premium ultra low noise and low distortion parts, all of that to end up with a guy clipping the converters to make things loud. :.
I would say that it's because clipping (whether it's analog or digital) and saturation plug-ins are the amulets that sound butchers use to make believe they are shamans. Show-off is a very strong motivator in a crowded industry.weiss said:i'm trying to understand this. why would one want to clip or limit before mastering?
weiss said:i'm trying to understand this. why would one want to clip or limit before mastering?
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