Cardinen

De-esser: Dbx 902 vs 263X vs 263A
« on: August 31, 2018, 06:59:19 AM »
Hi all,

I'm not completely satisfied with de-esser plugins, i often receive material with hissing voices and feel like i have to use 2 deesser in series to tame the sibilances but i'm not always happy with the result.

I borrowed an old Orban broadband from a friend wich i don't like so much, i feel like the voice is "strangled" when it operate.  ( like SSLTech said in this thread :  https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=34729.20  )

I never tried a Dbx 902 and after reading the comments i would like to try one. At the moment i'm able to find for cheap a couple of 263X but I could not find much info about it; Looking at the schematic it seem like a modern revision of 902, the discrete out is replaced with 5534 and some minor changes, what do you think about it ??

thanks  ;)
SSLtech:  "Because not all that matters can be measured, and not all that can be measured matters."


Cardinen

Re: De-esser: Dbx 902 vs 263X vs 263A
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2018, 07:00:07 AM »
263X Schematic
SSLtech:  "Because not all that matters can be measured, and not all that can be measured matters."

12afael

Re: De-esser: Dbx 902 vs 263X vs 263A
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2018, 07:35:55 AM »
I´m in your same situation. I have been thinking in make a pcb for this de esser but I have not tried them and the 263x seem to be very cheap to even try to diy it.

would be good to hear more opinions.
heavy metal is the law!!!

Rogy

Re: De-esser: Dbx 902 vs 263X vs 263A
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2018, 03:09:15 PM »
Hi,

I use the Empirical Labs DerrEsser; try to get one on demo and see if it works for you.

Same principle as the DBX 902 (level-independent de-essing) and more (can do HF limiting, ...)

Cheers Rogy

EmRR

Re: De-esser: Dbx 902 vs 263X vs 263A
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2018, 03:26:16 PM »
DBX 520
Best,

Doug Williams
Electromagnetic Radiation Recorders

"I think this can be better. Some kind of control that's intuitive, not complicated like a single knob" - Crusty

"Back when everything sounde

abbey road d enfer

Re: De-esser: Dbx 902 vs 263X vs 263A
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2018, 05:55:55 PM »
I never tried a Dbx 902 and after reading the comments i would like to try one. At the moment i'm able to find for cheap a couple of 263X but I could not find much info about it; Looking at the schematic it seem like a modern revision of 902, the discrete out is replaced with 5534 and some minor changes, what do you think about it ??
All dbx de-essers are very similar in operation. The 902, being discrete, was much more expensive than the 263X, but there is very little difference in performance.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
"The important thing is not to convince, but to give pause for thought." (B. Werber)
Star ground is for electricians.

EmRR

Re: De-esser: Dbx 902 vs 263X vs 263A
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2018, 06:15:28 PM »
All dbx de-essers are very similar in operation. The 902, being discrete, was much more expensive than the 263X, but there is very little difference in performance.

They are very different in design and performance. There's a full breakdown from ssltech here somewhere.  The 263X is not nearly so sophisticated. 
Best,

Doug Williams
Electromagnetic Radiation Recorders

"I think this can be better. Some kind of control that's intuitive, not complicated like a single knob" - Crusty

"Back when everything sounde

abbey road d enfer

Re: De-esser: Dbx 902 vs 263X vs 263A
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2018, 06:29:05 PM »
They are very different in design and performance.
They all use the same type of filter inserted in the signal path of a basic RMS compressor.

Quote
  The 263X is not nearly so sophisticated.
It is certainly more cheaply made, but the basic structure is the same. The THD and noise performance is certainly inferior, but it's hardly noticeable in operation.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
"The important thing is not to convince, but to give pause for thought." (B. Werber)
Star ground is for electricians.

EmRR

Re: De-esser: Dbx 902 vs 263X vs 263A
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2018, 06:41:44 PM »
They all use the same type of filter inserted in the signal path of a basic RMS compressor.

I think you are wrong there, but I may be wrong.  There's a big thread already....
Best,

Doug Williams
Electromagnetic Radiation Recorders

"I think this can be better. Some kind of control that's intuitive, not complicated like a single knob" - Crusty

"Back when everything sounde

JohnRoberts

Re: De-esser: Dbx 902 vs 263X vs 263A
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2018, 07:02:05 PM »
Still better to record the track clean... de-essing is required for close miked  HF sources, or vocals with too much compression... maybe track with less compression?

JR 
John Roberts
http://circularscience.com
Tune it, or don't play it...


shot

Re: De-esser: Dbx 902 vs 263X vs 263A
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2018, 07:08:03 PM »

EmRR

Re: De-esser: Dbx 902 vs 263X vs 263A
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2018, 07:47:41 PM »
Still better to record the track clean... de-essing is required for close miked  HF sources, or vocals with too much compression... maybe track with less compression?

JR

I've met many a singer who needed de-essing with no other processing, even with a ribbon placed in all the right 's' reducing locations.....like out back o' the building while they are inside......I'll do part of the de-essing with a 902 on the way in.....
Best,

Doug Williams
Electromagnetic Radiation Recorders

"I think this can be better. Some kind of control that's intuitive, not complicated like a single knob" - Crusty

"Back when everything sounde

JohnRoberts

Re: De-esser: Dbx 902 vs 263X vs 263A
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2018, 07:51:05 PM »
I've met many a singer who needed de-essing with no other processing, even with a ribbon placed in all the right 's' reducing locations.....like out back o' the building while they are inside......I'll do part of the de-essing with a 902 on the way in.....
Maybe stuff a sock in their mouth...?

JR

[edit] in hindsight my comments seem a little harsh.... I have designed several de-essers over the years and they have their place for "fit it in the mix" repair work.  Carry on...  [/edit]
« Last Edit: September 01, 2018, 09:52:02 AM by JohnRoberts »
John Roberts
http://circularscience.com
Tune it, or don't play it...

scott2000

Re: De-esser: Dbx 902 vs 263X vs 263A
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2018, 08:49:13 PM »
Hi all,

I'm not completely satisfied with de-esser plugins, i often receive material with hissing voices and feel like i have to use 2 deesser in series to tame the sibilances but i'm not always happy with the result.

I borrowed an old Orban broadband from a friend wich i don't like so much, i feel like the voice is "strangled" when it operate.

Probably not in the same league as the DBX but the BSS DPR 404 has a pretty decent one iirc....

Have you tried the FAb Filter plug? Just curious....I never have....

aomahana

Re: De-esser: Dbx 902 vs 263X vs 263A
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2018, 11:46:59 PM »
Hi,

Coincident timing.

I have just pulled my dbx 263A out of the rack to sell.
I have a pair, and when I bought them I re-racked them as a 1U pair.
I bought them for a specific job with a female singer who had written some beautiful songs with very musical piano accompaniment. However her singing had overwhelming sibilance which had to be dealt with. The 263As worked  well.
It may well have been that she was unused to using a microphone, but apart from the sibilance, her singing was lovely. Nothing else I had tried worked without losing more than I gained.
I haven't used the de-essers since.
So before selling them I gave them a test.
There was a problem with the display not working correctly.
This was a combination of, a LED which had failed, and also a pass transistor and the voltage regulators needed re-soldering.
The input voltage from the transformer was a little higher than expected.
So when all was working well I had a good listen, and to my surprise, it was more useful than I expected.
So I am going to upgrade some of the audio circuit and keep it.

All the best,
aomahana.

abbey road d enfer

Re: De-esser: Dbx 902 vs 263X vs 263A
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2018, 02:45:02 AM »
I think you are wrong there, but I may be wrong. 
Well, both schemos are here, you can compare them... In terms of functionalities, The 263X does not have a range control, that's the only significant difference. Not a big deal.

Quote
There's a big thread already.... 
Couldn't find anything pertinent to this discussion, only corroboration that both the 902 and the 263X perform well.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2018, 02:50:18 AM by abbey road d enfer »
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
"The important thing is not to convince, but to give pause for thought." (B. Werber)
Star ground is for electricians.

Re: De-esser: Dbx 902 vs 263X vs 263A
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2018, 04:48:17 PM »
I have a Drawmer mx50 and it works great!

jensenmann

Re: De-esser: Dbx 902 vs 263X vs 263A
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2018, 11:32:11 AM »
Both BSS DPR402 and DPR404 have very usable deessers.
The most "invisible" deesser for me is the SPL hardware, which is my #1 goto deesser. Having said that I bought a 263a some time ago just for the sake of finding out how it is. In stock state it is not the best kit, but after some help (recapping and a few modifications) it turned out pretty useable, not too far from the current dbx offering (520 for 500-racks).
Jens
Quote from: PRR
The tubes of course don't care what frequency they distort

EmRR

Re: De-esser: Dbx 902 vs 263X vs 263A
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2018, 02:16:54 PM »
Well, both schemos are here, you can compare them... In terms of functionalities, The 263X does not have a range control, that's the only significant difference. Not a big deal.
 Couldn't find anything pertinent to this discussion, only corroboration that both the 902 and the 263X perform well.

I can't find it either, memory may be wrong.  I find the first bits of speculating about the differences, but not the later specifics I think I remember. 
Best,

Doug Williams
Electromagnetic Radiation Recorders

"I think this can be better. Some kind of control that's intuitive, not complicated like a single knob" - Crusty

"Back when everything sounde


 

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