Kavana(ugh)

hodad said:

Oh, but it does matter.  Republicans (deservedly) are on the verge of becoming the party of the past.  They are incapable of holding control without engaging in extreme gerrymandering, voter suppression, and a reliance on an archaic electoral system. 
Trump lost the popular vote by 3 MILLION, and the D-to-R voter advantage in House races is even bigger than that.  With demographic changes, they will soon be relegated to near irrelevance. 
However, having that ultra-reliable hard-right ideologue on the Supreme Court gives them a glimmer of hope that their race will survive, and perhaps someday rise again to fight for their lofty ideals of racism, plutocracy and environmental recklessness. 

I'm old enough to remember when Republicans, despite their flaws, might have had a shred of decency.  Heck, even Nixon had enough common decency to resign.  Those days are long gone.  Today's Rs have left behind the "moral" part of moral relativism.  It's power & money at this point.  Morality is for Democrats and chumps.

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I agree, it does matter who sits on the court. What I meant to say it doesn't matter what Republicans do now, they are set up to loose one way or the other. They can impeach the judge later, stuff the bench or find other remedies (not 2nd amendmend). They don't get that their crazy, radical ways will be the source of their own destruction.

Except for 2004 not Republican has gotten a majority of votes for President since the early 90s. A time will come when their base has shrunken so much that even all the distortions and dirty tricks currently keeping them afloat will not matter anymore. And people like Trump, Clarence Thomas, McConnel, Kavenaugh will be put in the dustbin of history, where they belong.

Yes, but then still, looking forward to that time, Americans will need to decide what they think about ACTUAL things, not just R vs. D.  The American people have been led astray by the whole politics show of us vs. them but it is time people start to think again.
The question is does the two party still work in that instance, because people are lured with a carrot on a local level, and to a degree, this allows the party to do whatever they like on a national level ( I am exaggerating), but what happens if the Democrats get more say in politics? The Republican story was always clear, get people more guns, decrease regulation for companies, tax cuts for the wealthy, does that sum it up? But what is the alternative? And does that leave people with enough meaningful choice to choose the representation they are comfortable with?

It's funny (and disappointing) that people question the timing of a accusation like this.  Of course playing politics makes the indefensible fair game nowadays.

It's not uncommon for revelations of abuse to come out WAY later. Look at all the men who have spoken out about abuse in the Catholic church from decades ago. Even today, accusations like this in a college setting are turned back into interrogations of the victims. The 'metoo' movement is providing a tailwind for victims to speak out, perhaps like never before.

I'm sure it worse 30 yrs ago to make an accusation about something like this - especially when the accused perp is a privileged boy from a wealthy family.
The case of Brock Turner is especially disgusting - and only happened a couple years ago. 

Also, for your daily dose of disgust in the conservative propaganda machine - Rush Limbaugh is spreading the lie that this same woman made this same accusation about Gorsuch.

dmp said:

It's funny (and disappointing) that people question the timing of a accusation like this.  Of course playing politics makes the indefensible fair game nowadays.

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:-\  It is hard to ignore the politics in this.

It's not uncommon for revelations of abuse to come out WAY later. Look at all the men who have spoken out about abuse in the Catholic church from decades ago.

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Actually people have spoken out about abuse within the catholic church for a long time only difference is that now they are actually being listened to and taken seriously.    Even the Pope is apologizing these days and taking corrective action, instead of protecting miscreants, like in the past (no doubt thanks to the #metoo inspired culture shift.). 

That does not seem like what is happening in this case, of course opinions vary. 

Even today, accusations like this in a college setting are turned back into interrogations of the victims. The 'metoo' movement is providing a tailwind for victims to speak out, perhaps like never before.

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sexual accusations on college campuses has actually swung back from from "guilty until proven innocent" to slightly more rational (due process), but these are never easy to parse... so many hormones mixed with intoxicated young people can lead to regrets and second guessing situations that started out innocently. Bad behavior surely occurs and needs to be dealt with appropriately. Maybe replacing booze with pot will reduce sexual aggression on campus (IMO Maybe). ? 

I'm sure it worse 30 yrs ago to make an accusation about something like this - especially when the accused perp is a privileged boy from a wealthy family.

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unknown, the back story surrounding this case is not well fleshed out...

The case of Brock Turner is especially disgusting - and only happened a couple years ago. 

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according to google he was guilty, I don't know who he is/was/is.

Also, for your daily dose of disgust in the conservative propaganda machine - Rush Limbaugh is spreading the lie that this same woman made this same accusation about Gorsuch.

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I always wondered who listens to Limbaugh...?

The far right is as bad as the far left.  Ignore both and certainly don't paint everybody in the middle with the hyperbole from the fringes from both sides.  I try not to.  My complaint is mainstream media now seems more like the extreme left and right than any civil middle ground...

Maybe I am just a sensitive snowflake ?  (I'm melting. : )

JR

JohnRoberts said:

PS: This makes me glad I am not a public official.  BTW don't watch old movies from the 30's half those guys would end up in #METOO jail. 

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Actually, I don't think so....those guys had CLASS. These(republican) creeps just keep on reaping what they sow...while their supporters keep on making excuses for them.

dmp said:

I'm sure it worse 30 yrs ago to make an accusation about something like this - especially when the accused perp is a privileged boy from a wealthy family.

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30+ years ago it was a whole different world.  Back when I was much younger I briefly dated a girl who had been kidnapped from in front of a punk club and raped.  The case actually went to trial and from what I gather the defense attacked her character viciously--she was at a punk club after all (early 80s), and they went after her for suspected drug use and promiscuity.  If I recall correctly, the rapists got off.  Because that's how things were back then. 
And it was absolutely psychologically devastating for her. 

Why would anyone invite that sort of grief on herself? 

Again IIRC, around this time Florida had a law that stated that if a woman was dressed provocatively in public a man could rape her with impunity because she was "asking for it." 

And date rape was barely even talked about at that time--and I could tell you about another friend who suffered deep psychological scars from that. 

So for a woman not to come forward at the time--not at all surprising.  And if you read about the DC prep school crowd of that era(see link in a previous post), people are extremely hesitant to say anything negative--especially on the record. 

I do not think Ms. Ford is "playing politics"--the cost for her is far too great to think it's good fun & games.  Certainly there's politics being played on both sides of the aisle, but that's not her fault. 

the Evangelicals are furious over this, they want Wade-Roe overturned.

Hold on CJ! Jesus would 100% positively be a democrat if he was alive today. He invented the values of the modern democratic party.  I don't understand how Christian conservatives came to be. Seems abortion and gay marriage "trump" everything else Jesus said...And he didn't even say anything about those things anyways!

900 posts! Can I get a witness!

bluebird said:

Hold on CJ! Jesus would 100% positively be a democrat if he was alive today. He invented the values of the modern democratic party.  I don't understand how Christian conservatives came to be. Seems abortion and gay marriage "trump" everything else Jesus said...And he didn't even say anything about those things anyways!

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There are many false believers that succumb to wickedness and selfishness, stupidly. Human arrogance I suppose.

Y'shua exists...trust me. I've objectively proven it for myself(if that's possible?). After you die, he guards the entrance. Study His teaching, and follow it as much as you possibly can.

Off topic. Kavanaugh is paying for his choices.

I am going to point out the elephant in the room.
Accusation is not guilty.
And if you look at the time line of her events
1982 - Something may or may not have happened with another 2 (or 4) teenagers at a party, she cannot remember who threw the party, where the party was held, who she was with or how she got home. She was drinking and said nothing to anyone.
1983,
1984,
1985,
1986,
1987,
1988,
1989,
1990,
1991,
1992,
1993,
1994,
1995,
1996,
1997,
1998,
1999,
2000,
2001,
2002... She said nothing.
July 25, 2003: President George W. Bush nominated Kavanaugh to the United States Court of Appeals for the D.C Circuit... She said nothing.
2004,
2005... She said nothing.
May 11, 2006: The United States Senate Committee on the Judiciary recommended confirmation. Kavanaugh subsequently confirmed by the United States Senate... She said nothing.
June 1, 2006: Kavanaugh sworn in by Justice Anthony Kennedy... She said nothing.
2007,
2008,
2009,
2010,
2011... She said nothing.
2012... She remembered 'something' happened in 1982, yet doesn't name Kavanaugh, still said nothing to authorities.
May have mentioned kavanaugh in therapy because she was in fear that one day he would be nominated to the scotus. According to her husband.
2013,
2014,
2015,
2016,
2017 - becomes an anti-trump activist.
2018 - now 36 years later, with Kavanaugh's SCOTUS confirmation looming, she pens an anonymous letter with grave accusations against Kavanaugh regarding foggy circumstance that occurred while they were both minors, then reveals herself and DEMANDS an FBI investigation before testifying to her incredible allegations?
If this were a criminal investigation no lawyer would have her on the stand as she is a liability to her own case.

pucho812 said:

If this were a criminal investigation no lawyer would have her on the stand as she is a liability to her own case.

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Especially without an investigation into the claims so you had an idea if she was telling the truth. It was a party. There were people around.  The FBI could make a dent in sorting that out.

Time elapsed has no bearing on whether the claims are true or false. Either they are true or not. Then, now forever.

I know. I am not saying they should or shouldn't investigate.  Just an observation based on what we currently know

If the Rs weren't uncomfortable about what Ford has to say, they wouldn't be pushing so hard.  Whether any of it's necessarily true or not, Kavanaugh has a rep.  There's a rumor of at least one other assault in his younger days.  And there's a good bit of scuttlebutt about Kavanaugh wanting his female clerks to look "a certain way--"  loosely translated to no uggos.  And there's his relationship with sleazebag ex-judge Alex Kozinski. 

The senators aren't just worried about being out-PR'ed here.  They're worried about a genuinely bad Supreme Court candidate being exposed for who he is.  They're hiding huge swaths of his record with GWB, trying desperately to put Ms. Ford in as weak a position as possible, because they want to try to squeeze him through before the whole thing falls apart. 

What's sad is that they seem so eager to have this man, whose past is checkered to say the least, sitting on the Supreme Court.  Of course, compared to their president, Kavanaugh is a freaking saint.  Which shows just how low the party has sunk. 

What's even worse are the people that condone their behavior in the name of 'national security' or 'the economy'. ie: We don't mind if they've raped women, stolen from the poor, slept around with prostitutes while married, shut down Palestinian hospitals(who have already been 'terrorized' for 60 years by Israeli's), remove much needed health care from poor and disabled americans,  destroy the environment at a crucial period, enable mass shooters and give 4 year olds 9mm's, make deals with the Russian mafia...the very people the masses believe they're protecting them against....naw....all of that's eh ok.

We just don't see it.

Off topic. But not by much.

"A conservative lobbyist friend of Bret Kavanaugh did online searches for Christine Blasey Ford before she was outed as the person who accused Kavanaugh."


So, in other words, before they knew who was making the accusations, that they knew who would rightfully be making the accusations. Coincidence? I think not.

So he knew her name before it was public. So Brett must have given him the name. It is revealing that they would see her as a threat to his confirmation and looking her up is damning. Wow and all these conservative are saying she is lying boy when they went looking seems funny they knew where to start. He knows her and worried what she would say. BOOM. I'm telling you guys every person Trump has hired is either in prison or on their way there.Pretty damning. Bingo. Guilty. Yes he's guilty as charged. Busted. This is BIGLY!
.


Kavanaugh will not be a supreme court judge.

desol said:

What's even worse are the people that condone their behavior in the name of 'national security' or 'the economy'. ie: We don't mind if they've raped women, stolen from the poor, slept around with prostitutes while married, shut down Palestinian hospitals(who have already been 'terrorized' for 60 years by Israeli's), remove much needed health care from poor and disabled americans,  destroy the environment at a crucial period, enable mass shooters and give 4 year olds 9mm's, make deals with the Russian mafia...the very people the masses believe they're protecting them against....naw....all of that's eh ok.

We just don't see it.

Off topic. But not by much.

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"Who cares if the Saudi's kill Yemeni's. We have a $2B bomb order to fill."

The current state of the US is a total shitshow.

CJ said:

So, in other words, before they knew who was making the accusations, that they knew who would rightfully be making the accusations. Coincidence? I think not.

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What I've read suggests that he knew after the White House had been informed of her name, but before it was made public.  Which suggests that Whelan's piece was a coordinated hit job directed by the White House. 

desol makes a good point.  Even beyond our usual willful blindness to our country's various misdeeds, Trump is the ultimate misdirection, the ultimate distraction.  The things that get lost in the hullaballoo are likely far worse than the things that attention gets paid to.

I am very interested to hear what she has to say under oath.
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It appears many are taking this opportunity to vent. I hope it feels better to get this venom out.

I try not to write about things I cannot know so see you all around the internets after we know more.

JR

hodad said:

desol makes a good point.  Even beyond our usual willful blindness to our country's various misdeeds, Trump is the ultimate misdirection, the ultimate distraction.  The things that get lost in the hullaballoo are likely far worse than the things that attention gets paid to.

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Yes, there are real risks and cathastrophies that may not be prevented due to the sheer incompetence of them all. Here's a  good recent article to raise the hairs on your necks:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/sep/22/michael-lewis-trump-gambling-america