Rane how to cripple a good device

Just to talk about how Cripple a good device ,

it could have been very useful for track, mix , and why not also for mastering ,
if clean and sufficiently precise ,

since it would have been based on ic opamp and not tubes , inductors & co.

and considered it include ad-da 24 bit converters ,
digital in-out would have been useful , also as ADA converter ,

obviously with an " aggressive " price ,

all togheter could be a good analog  eq ...
but seem that the way was another one ….

right ?
wrong ?

http://www.rane.com/peq55.html

I made and sold several (analog) parametric EQ over the years (including a kit in 1979). They were never as popular as simpler graphic EQs. My GEQ with blinky LEDs over every slider (FLS) was far more popular. I suspect RANE discontinuing theirs is a sign of DSP taking over that end of signal processing.

JR

JohnRoberts said:

I made and sold several (analog) parametric EQ over the years (including a kit in 1979). They were never as popular as simpler graphic EQs. My GEQ with blinky LEDs over every slider (FLS) was far more popular. I suspect RANE discontinuing theirs is a sign of DSP taking over that end of signal processing.

JR

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yess
considered that the eq section is digital  (software) , why not a usb port to use the eq  as plug in on daw ,
or connected via aes ebu to a digital mixer

but why not a full analog eq with ADA option and digital in-out ?

… probably the Rane way was different …. but which way  ?

cheers
ps
any image of Eq made ?

No money in hardware that doesn't have a visible tube, big bakelite knobs, and some kind of script logo.  And even then it's probably not very profitable.

On the other hand Waves is trying to push everybody into buy their hardware that runs plugins, because selling plugins kind of sucks also.

Rane was taken over recently. Don't remember by whom...

I guess we can't blame it on them anymore

Scodiddly said:

No money in hardware that doesn't have a visible tube, big bakelite knobs, and some kind of script logo.  And even then it's probably not very profitable.

On the other hand Waves is trying to push everybody into buy their hardware that runs plugins, because selling plugins kind of sucks also.

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Waves prices
break incomprehensibly bank accounts….    : (

on the other side some Rane "ways" are  incomprehensible too  8 I

cheers

SIXTYNINER said:

Waves prices
break incomprehensibly bank accounts….    : (

on the other side some Rane "ways" are  incomprehensible too  8 I

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Rane makes pretty straight forward no-BS gear for pro-sumer and commercial installations. Everything they made after ~1997 had proper balanced inputs / outputs. Enclosures are solid steel, properly shielded from RF and manuals include full schematics. At least they used to. I don't know what they do nowdays. But I would be surprised if that PEQ 55 thing you're talking about did not perform perfectly fine. In fact, I would have more confidence in a Rane product than I would in something with a script logo / bakelite knobs.

squarewave said:

Rane makes pretty straight forward no-BS gear for pro-sumer and commercial installations. Everything they made after ~1997 had proper balanced inputs / outputs. Enclosures are solid steel, properly shielded from RF and manuals include full schematics. At least they used to. I don't know what they do nowdays. But I would be surprised if that PEQ 55 thing you're talking about did not perform perfectly fine. In fact, I would have more confidence in a Rane product than I would in something with a script logo / bakelite knobs.

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A 5 band stereo parametric Eq + other options with a good front panel controls  layout …
all thrown in a Dsp software process + ADA conversions , what a shame (i.m.h.o.)
probably the target was only for conference systems , shopping centers sound diffusion and communications , and similar

or an attempt to launch an "hybrid" technology with software inside a rack box ,
software instead of real components ,
for lower the production cost ,  and increase the profit

and now that eq software ?
will it become a plug in ?

why not a version with real components , also 5532 based ,
for full  analog process , with ADA converters as well ?

cheers

I don't really get why you think this unit is "crippled"?

Isn't it just a simple DSP-based system like the Behringer Ultracurve?

Jakob E.

(ps: it saddens me everytime you are bashing "something with a script logo / bakelite knobs"  :'( )

SIXTYNINER said:

A 5 band stereo parametric Eq + other options with a good front panel controls  layout …
all thrown in a Dsp software process + ADA conversions , what a shame (i.m.h.o.)
probably the target was only for conference systems , shopping centers sound diffusion and communications , and similar

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Not a shame at all. I have no idea what you're talking about. I didn't know this thing was DSP but I'm actually really impressed that it is because it totally makes perfect sense. I don't have any Rane gear but I'm actually inspired by their pragmatic position. A state variable filter is noisy. If you chain 5 (or 10) together, the noise is not insignificant. But 24bit 48kHz DSP can do 10 bands of parametric EQ perfectly probably with basically no noise.

SIXTYNINER said:

or an attempt to launch an "hybrid" technology with software inside a rack box ,

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Yes please! One of the things that I dislike about digital gear is that the controls stink. And rotary encoders are a crap excuse for a control. This PEQ 55 thing has analog controls. So those knobs are regular potentiometers.

Digital is bad at certain things (like guitar amp modelling) but for things like mixing and simple filtering, it's very hard to beat performance wise. I recently measured the noise of my cheapo Lexicon MX200 (analog IO - not SPDIF) and it was literally nothing. I used the digital delay patch with a 20ms delay and generated high res spectrums in GNU Octave and got this:



which shows the noise floor is ~-135dB below the clipping point (don't recall what the clipping point was but it does +4dBu no problem so knock off at least 5dB) which is so good I've been trying to find out what's wrong with my script. And notice that there's very little distortion also.

gyraf said:

Jakob E.

(ps: it saddens me everytime you are bashing "something with a script logo / bakelite knobs"  :'( )

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thanks for post Jakob ,

about what quoted you have to talk with : "squarewave"
cheers

squarewave said:

Not a shame at all. I have no idea what you're talking about. I didn't know this thing was DSP but I'm actually really impressed that it is because it totally makes perfect sense. I don't have any Rane gear but I'm actually inspired by their pragmatic position. A state variable filter is noisy. If you chain 5 (or 10) together, the noise is not insignificant. But 24bit 48kHz DSP can do 10 bands of parametric EQ perfectly probably with basically no noise.
Yes please! One of the things that I dislike about digital gear is that the controls stink. And rotary encoders are a crap excuse for a control. This PEQ 55 thing has analog controls. So those knobs are regular potentiometers.

Digital is bad at certain things (like guitar amp modelling) but for things like mixing and simple filtering, it's very hard to beat performance wise. I recently measured the noise of my cheapo Lexicon MX200 (analog IO - not SPDIF) and it was literally nothing. I used the digital delay patch with a 20ms delay and generated high res spectrums in GNU Octave …..

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knowing the troubles that pro tools still have processing plug ins with internal 48-64bit streaming
the Rane 24 bit are not very few ?

( And: if pro tools with proper dedicated dsp cards have troubles ,
I leave you to imagine what happen with cubase , logic , and other software daw based on computer cpu..)


i can't accept a comparison between a plug in eq inserted on the ch strip
and a delays , reverbs, chorus , etc…  rack device
because in the "chain" the delays etc… fxs stay under the dry sound , added with fx send ,
the eq is in the middle between dry and processed , blender option apart that not all eq have ,

i understand your test described above is specific about noise

but why use an analog eq if no cool harmonic distortion/saturation can be added to the track ?
there are tons of  clean (sterile) transparent eq plug ins for Daw also for "free"…
(noise issue free as you described)

probably the Rane "way" was not the recording studio


cheers

SIXTYNINER said:

but why use an analog eq if no cool harmonic distortion/saturation can be added to the track ?
there are tons of  clean (sterile) transparent eq plug ins for Daw also for "free"…
(noise issue free as you described)

probably the Rane "way" was not the recording studio


cheers

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Because no one wants a pulltec for a conference room eq.  ;D

iampoor1 said:

Because no one wants a pulltec for a conference room eq.  ;D

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Exactly as wrote :
Rane  "way" was another ..

cheers