boji

Re: A Taste of Things to Come
« Reply #60 on: November 04, 2018, 05:05:40 PM »
Quote
Pedophiles self-select for a job position that best allows them to be pedophiles.
Kinda off topic, but I've read some lit on pedophilia and hebephilla and spoke with a psychologist friend on this subject and any 'self-selecting' mechanism is far more complicated than this.

It is a taboo subject so real-world data is limited, and those that become part of the data represent those with urges so strong they get caught. Case studies have pedophiliacs describing a painful self-awareness of their problem, and that they take all manner of precaution to avoid acting on their urges, which includes drugs and alcohol. Plagued by their 'evil' desires, many took to the church because it demanded celibacy as a measure of commitment; it was the best place to go to wage the battle over their 'demons'.
Of course, as is evidenced by the testimony of victims, the institutional neglect (and complicity) in the church to deal with the widespread problem has caused much suffering.


JohnRoberts

Re: A Taste of Things to Come
« Reply #61 on: November 04, 2018, 05:43:09 PM »
I don't want to deflate anybody's feelings of moral superiority but sex is one of the human animal's sundry pleasure centers for obvious reasons (enjoying sex promotes the genome). Besides sex, we receive pleasure from eating food (same reason), drugs (that release endorphins and more), etc... Rock and roll (?)...  ::)

We have been socialized by modern culture (that is constantly changing) redefining what are acceptable ways to satisfy our desires for stimulation (endorphins). Pedophilia that was more acceptable several centuries ago is way way out of fashion today  :o... being overweight, succumbing to a similar but different pleasure center, is not exactly encouraged, but not stigmatized like aberrant  sexual behavior is.

The joker or wild card in this is that humans have varying ability to resist succumbing to every desire presented, and modern culture presents a lot. For many people this unsocialized behavior is not willful. If not actual mental illness some people lack the self control that most of us take for granted (genetic brain chemistry). This does not make them evil, or OK. We need to learn to manage this better...

The seemingly less random occurrences of modern public violence, are probably an artifact of media amplification (and copy cats), but it still reveals a problem for some small fraction of us that we could address with better diagnosis and treatment of mental health (a very broad catch word).

  JR 

PS: In some ways the science is way ahead of culture regarding this. We still wrestle with privacy issues and funding to fully address this.
John Roberts
http://circularscience.com
Tune it, or don't play it...

dmp

Re: A Taste of Things to Come
« Reply #62 on: November 08, 2018, 11:01:43 AM »
The Caravan of Central American migrants could not have come at a better time for Trump, with the mid terms coming up.


Interesting how this story disappeared after the midterms. Almost as if it were a farse - a ploy to get anti-immigrant Republican voters motivated. And to distract the news cycle from some pretty negative stories about Trump (like right wing terrorists killing Americans)
The US army was sending 5000 troops for "Operation Faithful Patriot" as if there were a national security threat. The day after midterms this operation was canceled by Mattis. 
I'm curious if the people who became worried about this now feel a little manipulated?

fazer

Re: A Taste of Things to Come
« Reply #63 on: November 08, 2018, 11:04:35 AM »
Very suspicious  story.  And it’s all about manipulation.

JohnRoberts

Re: A Taste of Things to Come
« Reply #64 on: November 08, 2018, 11:52:24 AM »
Interesting how this story disappeared after the midterms. Almost as if it were a farse - a ploy to get anti-immigrant Republican voters motivated. And to distract the news cycle from some pretty negative stories about Trump (like right wing terrorists killing Americans)
The US army was sending 5000 troops for "Operation Faithful Patriot" as if there were a national security threat. The day after midterms this operation was canceled by Mattis. 
I'm curious if the people who became worried about this now feel a little manipulated?
Where do you get your news? Perhaps it was being artificially hyped (by some media) to stir the pot before the election?  As before President Trump has a lot of influence over the short term news cycle and made it about Jeff Sessions (who coincidentally has targeted MS-13). 

While we all hate that $5B spent on these mid term elections, the lion's share of those billions goes to media for ad space purchases. Media is ranting all the way to the bank.   ::)

The caravan is still there (with more groups behind trying to catch up). Many of the economic migrants see this as an opportunity to make the trip without having to pay coyotes, a significant cost to them.

I have seen news stories about more military moved to support the border and new fences erected with concertina razor wire on top.  Constructing tent cities and promises to hold refugee applicants in place until their hearing (and likely rejection). These stories may not be as attractive to media if it doesn't feed their agenda (as an embarrassment for President Trump).  This also telegraphs to the migrants that they will not be welcomed into the country with open arms.

The lawlessness in some central American countries is a real problem, not to mention the slow motion train wreck that is Venezuela (mostly migrating to Columbia for immediate health needs). Maduro is running the Cuban playbook so won't give up the reins of power peacefully.  I read one story about el Salvador where MS-13 controls more communities than the government there.

There is a wave of homicide across latin America with just 8% of the world's population, they suffer 38% of the world's homicides (something like 400 killed daily across the region).

Gang violence and failure of rule of law is not a typical criteria for refugee status, if it were there would be a tsunami of acceptable applications from the region. The right thing to do is for us to help these several nations struggling with gang violence/control, but again easier said than done. We are rarely welcome to do things like that. Sending more money will not necessarily help the right people. 

======
I would not be surprised to see President Trump pivot toward the democrats. He likes making deals more than anything else. He never was considered a real republican, just like Bernie never was a real democrat.

The democrats are calling for a $1T infrastructure bill that we need, but the subtext is paying for it by rolling back tax relief.

Sorry no need to argue details yet... we will have two years of this.

JR

PS: A split legislature is perceived as good news by the stock market as it usually means gridlock and less government meddling in the economy, unless the negotiator in chief starts cutting deals with the democrats (not a prediction ).

John Roberts
http://circularscience.com
Tune it, or don't play it...

dmp

Re: A Taste of Things to Come
« Reply #65 on: November 08, 2018, 12:02:24 PM »
I'm not saying this group of people didn't exist. But it was a long way from the border and it was not a threat to people in the USA.
It wasn't even an important news story - it might have gotten important once it was within a few miles of the border, but I doubt that will happen.
Trump made it a story to rile up his anti-immigrant, (and partially racist) base.  I'm pointing this out because this caravan story was manipulating the conversation.
 
There are two kinds of team politics - one is to straightforwardly argue your beliefs (liberal / conservative) the other is bring up "facts" in guise of good faith, when the goal is actually to distract from real issues. This I would call arguing in bad faith.
I am thinking this caravan story was an argument in bad faith - aimed to distract the discussion away from serious matters, for partisan agenda.
Unfortunately, this has become the dominant team politics in the age of Trump, and unfortunately I see the same thing happening in these discussion threads. I would suggest to people here that actually want to discuss real important topics (in good faith), to ignore the "Trump" style bad faith. Ignore it and it will go away (maybe).

JohnRoberts

Re: A Taste of Things to Come
« Reply #66 on: November 08, 2018, 02:06:14 PM »
I'm not saying this group of people didn't exist. But it was a long way from the border and it was not a threat to people in the USA.
It wasn't even an important news story - it might have gotten important once it was within a few miles of the border, but I doubt that will happen.
Trump made it a story to rile up his anti-immigrant, (and partially racist) base.  I'm pointing this out because this caravan story was manipulating the conversation.
 
There are two kinds of team politics - one is to straightforwardly argue your beliefs (liberal / conservative) the other is bring up "facts" in guise of good faith, when the goal is actually to distract from real issues. This I would call arguing in bad faith.
I am thinking this caravan story was an argument in bad faith - aimed to distract the discussion away from serious matters, for partisan agenda.
Unfortunately, this has become the dominant team politics in the age of Trump, and unfortunately I see the same thing happening in these discussion threads. I would suggest to people here that actually want to discuss real important topics (in good faith), to ignore the "Trump" style bad faith. Ignore it and it will go away (maybe).
I find arguing about intentions and what people think on the internets impossible to prove, even when people say what they think they think.  ::) 

When it comes to politics I watch what people do, and try not to listen to what they say.

JR
John Roberts
http://circularscience.com
Tune it, or don't play it...

living sounds

Re: A Taste of Things to Come
« Reply #67 on: November 08, 2018, 06:25:39 PM »
These are the "bad people" the military is supposed to safe the US from btw:

JohnRoberts

Re: A Taste of Things to Come
« Reply #68 on: November 08, 2018, 06:30:20 PM »
These are the "bad people" the military is supposed to safe the US from btw:

Keep digging... that image was missing a few of them...  ::)

JR
John Roberts
http://circularscience.com
Tune it, or don't play it...

living sounds

Re: A Taste of Things to Come
« Reply #69 on: November 08, 2018, 07:13:19 PM »
Keep digging... that image was missing a few of them...  ::)

JR

Do you really want me to expose the right wing paranoia entirely.


DaveP

Re: A Taste of Things to Come
« Reply #70 on: November 09, 2018, 03:16:00 AM »
Quote
We should've listened to the last president...

www.c-span.org/video/?c4656370/sen-barack-obama-illegal-immigration
+1
DaveP
Soundcloud: Delayed Action.

dmp

Re: A Taste of Things to Come
« Reply #71 on: November 09, 2018, 11:47:12 AM »
We should've listened to the last president...

www.c-span.org/video/?c4656370/sen-barack-obama-illegal-immigration
Yeah, that's a great video. It's too bad Republicans were able to obstruct the last administration to such a significant extent.
Why doesn't Trump crack down on business owners who hire illegal immigrants?  He's done nothing on that front. Business owners have a lot to lose if they face a significant punishment. 
I think the dirty secret of Republicans is they actually like the employment situation and exploiting their anti-immigrant / racist base at the ballot box.
It's a con that people blame immigrants for their lost jobs - it is the business owner that is firing the legal worker and hiring the illegal worker.

DaveP

Re: A Taste of Things to Come
« Reply #72 on: November 09, 2018, 12:17:36 PM »
Quote
It's a con that people blame immigrants for their lost jobs - it is the business owner that is firing the legal worker and hiring the illegal worker.
We agree! :)
This problem occurs in the UK too and it happens when there is not a joined up government, that is to say, different departments of government don't communicate and don't do what's best for the country, only for their own department.

For example:  You employ cheap foreign workers to save labour costs, but the original workers now draw unemployment pay.
Net gain  to the country, zero.  Only the boss benefits.

DaveP
Soundcloud: Delayed Action.

JohnRoberts

Re: A Taste of Things to Come
« Reply #73 on: November 09, 2018, 12:47:27 PM »
Yeah, that's a great video. It's too bad Republicans were able to obstruct the last administration to such a significant extent.
Why doesn't Trump crack down on business owners who hire illegal immigrants?  He's done nothing on that front. Business owners have a lot to lose if they face a significant punishment. 
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/immigration-crackdown-shifts-to-employers-as-audits-surge/

I will resist calling your comment "fake news"..  ;D.. President Trump is messaging today about our need for "legal" immigration to fill jobs.

 I wouldn't expect Seattle newspapers to report anything positive about President Trump but perhaps in Seattle this is considered a negative news story.  :o Yet another example of mainstream news not covering positive accomplishments.
Quote
I think the dirty secret of Republicans is they actually like the employment situation and exploiting their anti-immigrant / racist base at the ballot box.
Except for the "anti-immigrant racist" pejorative characterization, you are somewhat correct, but this is not much of a secret. I have been saying this for years.  The only reason immigration reform hasn't happened already is because "both" political parties have their own different agendas that benefit from leaving immigration unreformed.


Quote

It's a con that people blame immigrants for their lost jobs - it is the business owner that is firing the legal worker and hiring the illegal worker.
Damn those business owners (class warfare).... ::)   When was the last time you were hired by a poor person? Many economic migrants are better workers than Americans in the labor pool, but they still need to wait in line like everybody else. There are labor shortages in many industries. At least reported by my newspaper (and business news channel).

I don't like 1x jobs (direct labor that only generates the value from what you touch), but 1x jobs are better than 0x jobs and the best most people can handle. I prefer Nx jobs where you create multiple times value and many immigrants are industrious and entrepreneurial (just look at silicon valley), so some fraction of them become Nx workers. 

Economic studies out of the NW regarding years of elevated minimum wages there are showing mixed results. The people who still have jobs are getting paid more, but there are less entry level jobs so harder to get onto the bottom rung of the employment ladder to advance. The new higher paid entry level positions are easier to replace economically with automation/AI. Not that anybody wants to flip burgers for a career but it helps to get a foot in the door and learn basic work skills (like showing up, and following instructions).

JR
John Roberts
http://circularscience.com
Tune it, or don't play it...

living sounds

Re: A Taste of Things to Come
« Reply #74 on: November 09, 2018, 01:55:20 PM »
We agree! :)
This problem occurs in the UK too and it happens when there is not a joined up government, that is to say, different departments of government don't communicate and don't do what's best for the country, only for their own department.

For example:  You employ cheap foreign workers to save labour costs, but the original workers now draw unemployment pay.
Net gain  to the country, zero.  Only the boss benefits.

DaveP

Immigrants often do the work nobody else would or could do. Actually not a zero sum gain. Fairer taxation is a different question, however.

JohnRoberts

Re: A Taste of Things to Come
« Reply #75 on: November 10, 2018, 10:41:44 AM »
Immigrants often do the work nobody else would or could do. Actually not a zero sum gain. Fairer taxation is a different question, however.
Generally "would do" for the modest wage offered.

With unemployment at record lows, and many unfilled job opportunities it is hard to complain too much about displaced workers from these low paying jobs.

 That said many workers need to gain new skills to optimize their employment chances, but I have been saying just that for years (right here).

JR
John Roberts
http://circularscience.com
Tune it, or don't play it...


 

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