"Normal" ribbon appearance?

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Khron

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Apr 8, 2010
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I got my hands on a Superlux R102 for dirt-cheap the other week (30e ;D ), and i figured i'd do a teardown and lift the schematic, for a blog post.

The thing works fine, but...  One thing that struck me was that the ribbon didn't look quite as corrugated as i would've expected, and it's not anywhere near "straight" - see attached photo.

Is this anywhere near normal?  :eek:

[Later edit] Well, it doesn't look quite as loose in the photo on RecordingHacks. Unless my eyes are playing tricks on me...

http://cdn.recordinghacks.com/images//mic_extras/superlux/R102-ribbon.jpg

For what it's worth, further details can be found right over here :)
 

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Haven't really run any sweeps or anything like that, but visually, it just looked like...

Well, if it was more pleated / corrugated, it would've been more "straight", and/or a more fitting length for the length of that "window".

Now it kinda looks like it got (partially) "straightened out" and is thus too long for that gap. Is this making any sense? ???


Pip said:
I looks OK to me. How does it sound?

If you mean should it be pleated the answer is yes!
 
At least going by the photos i found here:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/441808-ribbon-sag-update.html

Kinda looks to me i've got a case of the ribbon sag as well (har-har). Except this one's considerably flatter (less zig-zaggy) than those ones, like it's been stretched out inside the gap there.
 
Yes, your ribbon needs to be re tensioned.  I looks like it took a big hit, straightened out your crimps, and now it's blowing in the wind.  Although, if it sounds alright . . .

This is a test Michael Joly recomends in  the link you sent:

Simply listen the your ribbon mic in headphones and slowly rock the mic forward and backward bringing it to a horizontal resting place with the front then back side facing the floor - there should be no sudden clanging or clunking sound. If you hear a sound like a metalic bang the ribbon has severe sag and should be retensioned. A minor amount of sag is normal (perhaps 0.5 mm deflection from the center line in a "long ribbon" mic) and indicates a ribbon that is probably close to ideal tension and thus proper resonant frequency.
 
Khron said:
I got my hands on a Superlux R102 for dirt-cheap the other week (30e ;D ), and i figured i'd do a teardown and lift the schematic, for a blog post.

The thing works fine, but...  One thing that struck me was that the ribbon didn't look quite as corrugated as i would've expected, and it's not anywhere near "straight" - see attached photo.

Is this anywhere near normal?  :eek:

[Later edit] Well, it doesn't look quite as loose in the photo on RecordingHacks. Unless my eyes are playing tricks on me...

http://cdn.recordinghacks.com/images//mic_extras/superlux/R102-ribbon.jpg

For what it's worth, further details can be found right over here :)

The ribbon looks like a typical Chinese made one--corrugation pitch and depth are incorrect, the ribbon doesn't hold its tension and is saggy, most likely the ribbon material is way too thick. As an example of correctly corrugated ribbon for comparison below is our own VL37 1.5um ribbon. A couple survived falling from 8 feet tall booms on concrete floor, still maintaining a perfect tension (not that we'd suggest experimenting). Since you are in Europe I'd suggest to send it to Stewart for re-ribboning.

Best, M
 

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Hi, I got the same question about ribbon sag of the Superlux R102 MK1. I bought my mic for supercheap money aswell and it was clearly sold as defect. The problem is, there is very low signal buried in the noise.

I guess the active impedance converter is ok, the problem seems to be the heavy sag of the ribbon? (see photo)
I am totally new to ribbon mics but I want to get me feet wet. My plan is to unscrew the two Phillips screws close to the transformer and than I would try to retension the ribbon again. Good plan? ;-)

Any suggestions and tips to reach my goal without killing this super fragile ribbon?
And for plan B, is there someone in Germany or in nearby europe who is doing jobs like this?

Thanks a lot! (..and thanks Khron for the schematic and the further information)

PS: Who is Stewart?
 

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I was considering "restretching" the ribbon myself too, just haven't gotten around to it yet. Hasn't exactly been a priority for me :)

A "longer-term plan" is to re-ribbon it entirely, but i've yet to find a source for some suitable plastic gears or something :D
 
Khron said:
I was considering "restretching" the ribbon myself too, just haven't gotten around to it yet. Hasn't exactly been a priority for me :)

A "longer-term plan" is to re-ribbon it entirely, but i've yet to find a source for some suitable plastic gears or something :D

In comparison to your motor my ribbon sags really bad! It is close to 1cm... :eek:

Here is guy on ebay who is selling superduper Aluminium foil from Japan for this job:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/123692869731?ViewItem=&item=123692869731

I guess it would be way cheaper for me to find someone who experienced in doing this instead of "learning on the job", but hey I am DIYer.. ;D
 
Having seen this video "some time ago" (when it came out), it gave me more confidence in the DIY-ability of such a project ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIVkRQ4MI0M
 
Khron said:
Having seen this video "some time ago" (when it came out), it gave me more confidence in the DIY-ability of such a project ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIVkRQ4MI0M

Yeah, good video! It makes me believe that I can do this by myself, too. I like his LEGO pleating machine  ;D
I always knew that there will be a day that I will feel sorry about giving away my LEGO stuff to my nephew, arrrgghh  :eek:
 
Ok, the ribbon in my mic is broken, I need a new one. I guess I will save my nerves and my wallet and give this to someone who is closer to this topic. I need an expert.  8)

Every advice is welcome!
 
Khron said:
For what it's worth, further details can be found right over here :)

That circuit looks a lot like a differential stage upside down. What if you just replaced the K117's with some P-channel ones (2SJ74, LSJ689 dual or similar) and added some kind of current source (resistor with or without FET) for some gain?
 
The "upside down" part is very relative :D And what if? Well, i'd have to shell out some money for "esoteric" parts like those, first of all.

And on the other hand, how much of the "sound" of an active ribbon mic comes from the circuitry (barring any obvious tone-shaping)?
 
I’ve done 4 or 5 of these now, it’s pretty easy once you get the hang of it.

You need to buy:
https://geistnote.com/deluxe-crimper/
https://geistnote.com/1-8-m-aluminum-foil/
A new exacto knife blade(or several)
A straightedge
A hobby cutting board
Isopropyl alcohol
Qtips

You may want to buy a book of silver leaf foil to practice on.  It’s harder to do than the ribbon above, but cheaper.  You may burn through a bunch of these, like 5 tries or more per microphone and the 1.8 micron foil is a bit expensive. The silver leaf book comes with multiple pages of foil.

As for making the ribbons, you basically sandwich the foil in between a folded piece of the transparent paper, cut a true edge and then cut into a strip to fit in your gap with some wiggle room.  I get it close enough - you’ll almost definitely have a bit of twist in your final ribbon, so there needs to be a gap. If you put alcohol on the paper, the ribbon will stick to it.

Using the qtip with alcohol, transfer it to the crimper.  Try to minimize any twisting by going slow and being careful.

Get the ribbon out of the crimped paper.  Make sure there isn’t ac or a fan blowing near you or the ribbon will fly off.

Use a toothpick, the qtip, or a miniature screwdriver to place the ribbon in the mic and tighten down one side.

Watch a bunch of videos to see how tight it should be, and lightly move the toothpick to get the ribbon to look like that while centered in the gap.  Don’t tighten any more than you have to.

Plug the mic in to your daw and thump the case while looking at an eq plugin.  You want the thump to resonate as low as you can get it - but also do a voice check to see how that sounds.  You basically have to loosen the clamp on one end and lightly pull the ribbon into place to adjust this.  Once you’re good, fully tighten it and cut off the excess!

This is hard but far from impossible for a diy project.

I ended up making three mics my first time, but I used the heavy metal tube wringer thing (didn’t like it) and it damaged the middle of some of my ribbons.  Over about a year and a half, one broke and I could see a crack developing in one of the others in bright lights, so I redid them all.  The 2nd go around I did more fine tuning at the end and the mics were much improved from the first go round - and the first go round made the stock ones sound like a joke.  I also used cinemag transformers in my mics.

A cool thing with ribbons - they roll off the high end pretty severely starting at 5k or so.  However, you can boost the crap out of the high end and it sound great.  Try 10db of 10k!  Compared to my U47 clone, the ribbon is smoother and more relaxed, but equally hifi.  It’s a great vocal sound, and works excellently on any instrument too, once you add some highs back.  Watch out for airblasts or you’ll be reribboning them in short order!



 

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