Spencerleehorton

Re: The best noise gate?
« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2018, 05:21:30 AM »
Ah ok, nice one, I’ll make my pcb now and get all the bits together.
Gotta few more days off so hopefully will be able to do it all and then report back.
website: www.mohawkstudios.co.uk
email: [email protected]

If it hisses its probably the wrong impedance!!!
Or a snake!!!


Spencerleehorton

Re: The best noise gate?
« Reply #41 on: December 30, 2018, 07:54:49 AM »
Well it seems that the very little info on the internet about the rm68 reveal that they are not very good?

No real point building these if they are just going to be crap!!

Which leads me to then ask, are we able to improve them?

Someone has said that a behringer gate is better?!!

Can anyone else give any info on how these operate and any improvements I could try?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2018, 07:58:59 AM by Spencerleehorton »
website: www.mohawkstudios.co.uk
email: [email protected]

If it hisses its probably the wrong impedance!!!
Or a snake!!!

Spencerleehorton

Re: The best noise gate?
« Reply #42 on: December 30, 2018, 08:33:04 AM »
This is taken from another thread:

The Meyer units were always pretty poor... very amateurish in their construction, racking and appearance.

We had four of them as our ONLY noise gates in the 1970's, and when we bought our first Drawmer gate to go alongside them, we were so gobsmacked by how much better the Drawmer was -on every conceivable level- that we dumped them faster than you can imagine... maybe it's our old 4 that you have!!!

Anyhow, I don't recall much about them other than the rack was a collusion of individual 'slots' which we had flush-mounted into our 'producer's table' beneath the patchbay. There were wires hanging off the edge connectors and a power supply that hung out nearby. That's all I ever saw, and I think the only other thing you could put in that cage was the old 'gain-brain', though I'm not certain that the pinout did't have to be re-jigged to make that work...

Basically, they're not worth spending much money on. The attenuation -even at maximum- is about 30dB, which is often unusable, you have to cascade two in series to get anything like a 'mute'. There's no 'hold' feature and no sidechain filtering. -Basically they are totally and utterly outclassed by behringer gates, if that tells you anything.
website: www.mohawkstudios.co.uk
email: [email protected]

If it hisses its probably the wrong impedance!!!
Or a snake!!!

Spencerleehorton

Re: The best noise gate?
« Reply #43 on: December 30, 2018, 08:37:43 AM »
So it seems the level of attenuation is a problem, as the statement of 30db is all it can handle apparently?
Are we able to improve this?
website: www.mohawkstudios.co.uk
email: [email protected]

If it hisses its probably the wrong impedance!!!
Or a snake!!!

abbey road d enfer

Re: The best noise gate?
« Reply #44 on: December 30, 2018, 09:18:06 AM »
So it seems the level of attenuation is a problem, as the statement of 30db is all it can handle apparently?
Are we able to improve this?
It could be improved by increasing the value of the 22k pot. However, 30dB does not seem to be a serious issue for me, since a signal attenuated 30dB in a busy mix is just as well cut.
The thing is actually, the whole circuit is pretty crap, the detector is half-wave only, which may introduce as much as 3/4 of a period to the attack time, and the FET is in series, without control voltage compensation, that means its always in the signal path and introduces noticeable distortion; better designs put the FET as a shunt, with a compensated control voltage, so it is in the signal path only when the gate is off.
Actually, a Boss NF1 is a better proposition!
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
Star ground is for electricians.

Spencerleehorton

Re: The best noise gate?
« Reply #45 on: December 30, 2018, 11:19:56 AM »
Ok, good to know thanks, ill build a couple and test as I have nothing else at the moment and all spent out for Xmas!!
Also I’m interested how it will work, even if I don’t end up keeping them.
website: www.mohawkstudios.co.uk
email: [email protected]

If it hisses its probably the wrong impedance!!!
Or a snake!!!

JohnRoberts

Re: The best noise gate?
« Reply #46 on: December 30, 2018, 05:28:36 PM »
here is a one knob tilt EQ FYI..
 

and TMI.. https://www.proaudiodesignforum.com/forum/php/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=732

JR
Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

Re: The best noise gate?
« Reply #47 on: December 31, 2018, 06:25:30 AM »
Thats a pretty neat set up John , real estate on consoles is always a hard bargain , of course its all different now in the digital age .

abbey road d enfer

Re: The best noise gate?
« Reply #48 on: December 31, 2018, 06:53:48 AM »
Tilt EQ is a very useful tone-shaping tool, but hardly adequate for actions that require selectivity, which is the case for insertion in a noise-gate's side-chain, or a compressor's for de-essing.
The two most successful gates were the Drawmer DS201, which uses the HP & LP filter combo, and the BSS DPR502, that uses a parametric BP filter.
Today hardware gates are an endangered species (except for guitar pedal boards), almost exclusively in favour of plug-ins. They are often used with a plug-in EQ in the side-chain.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
Star ground is for electricians.

JohnRoberts

Re: The best noise gate?
« Reply #49 on: December 31, 2018, 09:59:40 AM »
Thats a pretty neat set up John , real estate on consoles is always a hard bargain , of course its all different now in the digital age .
I wouldn't use it on a console, but high feature multiple channel noise gates are often tight for front panel space.

@Abbey agreed, full parametric is ideal, with either a sweepable peaking section to increase sensitivity to a specific spectra, or a sweepable dip to reject a specific false trigger (like cymbal or drum leakage).  Thus my suggestion to provide an insert jack for one or two channels of external EQ. Arguably a sweepable boost/cut (with fixed Q) could be executed with only two knobs, but more circuit complexity than two knob tone control.

YMMV,  it is a little late in the game to reinvent this rather old and pretty round wheel, but I think we all agree that side chain EQ is useful for dealing with problem sources. Complex EQ on every channel seems overkill IMO.

JR
Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.


Spencerleehorton

Re: The best noise gate?
« Reply #50 on: January 05, 2019, 03:15:00 AM »
I would definitely like to implement a tilt eq into the circuit once I have exhausted all mods!
website: www.mohawkstudios.co.uk
email: [email protected]

If it hisses its probably the wrong impedance!!!
Or a snake!!!

Re: The best noise gate?
« Reply #51 on: January 05, 2019, 09:24:07 AM »
I've used  the BSS gate as well actually ,that one had midi triggering  ,very nice piece of kit

I never tend to use a gate as a noise suppressor  , you can always get extra hands around the mixer to mute/fade down unused  channels on cue , automation or  dsp based  noise reduction  is easier to set up at the mixdown end . Its all about the subtleties of being able to fine tune the threshhold attack hold decay and range  of the source for me , the 'duck' feature on the Ds201 is a great bonus too all kinds of interesting uses , the obvious like radio style voice overs where you want music to fade down and  almost be modulated by the presenters voice , that squelched sound is only moments away with with the Ds201 , duck a reverb and you can make it only appear in the spaces of the source material , so like a reverb or ambient mics  that only appear at starts, ends, breaks ,fills or middle 8's etc depending on what audio and key source you use to  trigger it  . I think Drawmer called one of the later models the 'punch gate',  its very apt title  for what these boxes do , they pack a hell of a sonic punch. 

I remember seeing something about Geoff Emericks use of gateing at Abbey Road , was a very tedious business as trollys of extra gear needed to be wheeled in and patched up , they had lots of difficulty with the gear burping and farting too , the DS201 put all the right tools in one box, 

Spencerleehorton

Re: The best noise gate?
« Reply #52 on: January 05, 2019, 10:58:26 AM »
Looking at the DS101 for me is the perfect solution but for £325 each 8 of them at the moment is not going to happen.
I need to do something cheap but does the job for the moment and work towards the DS101.
All I need it for at the moment is gating live guitar/bass/vocal in the same room, along with kick, snare and toms.
Having a tilt eq added to the rm68 may improve things but I have 16 other channels I could use on my mixer with full eq so could use them.
website: www.mohawkstudios.co.uk
email: [email protected]

If it hisses its probably the wrong impedance!!!
Or a snake!!!

JohnRoberts

Re: The best noise gate?
« Reply #53 on: January 05, 2019, 11:19:42 AM »
Looking at the DS101 for me is the perfect solution but for £325 each 8 of them at the moment is not going to happen.
I need to do something cheap but does the job for the moment and work towards the DS101.
All I need it for at the moment is gating live guitar/bass/vocal in the same room, along with kick, snare and toms.
Having a tilt eq added to the rm68 may improve things but I have 16 other channels I could use on my mixer with full eq so could use them.
Repeating myself, insert jacks for the side chain provide full EQ capability for minimal cost.

JR
Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

Rob Flinn

Re: The best noise gate?
« Reply #54 on: January 05, 2019, 01:45:30 PM »
Personally in your situation I would  buy some second hand gates.  I just got a 4 channel BBS gate on UK ebay for about 80 quid.   It has a paramatric eq in the sidechain.        Factoring in time & everything one needs to buy, parts, case, mains transformer & your time to me it's not worth DIYing.  I can better spend the time building something else.   There was a 4 channel KT gate with sidechain filters that was Buy it now for £49 recently too.   I guess if you want the experience of building them your self then go ahead.
regards Rob

JohnRoberts

Re: The best noise gate?
« Reply #55 on: January 05, 2019, 03:02:13 PM »
Personally in your situation I would  buy some second hand gates.  I just got a 4 channel BBS gate on UK ebay for about 80 quid.   It has a paramatric eq in the sidechain.        Factoring in time & everything one needs to buy, parts, case, mains transformer & your time to me it's not worth DIYing.  I can better spend the time building something else.   There was a 4 channel KT gate with sidechain filters that was Buy it now for £49 recently too.   I guess if you want the experience of building them your self then go ahead.
I am in the process of putting 6 channels of HYPEX amps together for my home system. I put a $20 bid on ebay for a broken AV receiver just to use for jacks and chassis.  8)

JR

Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

Rob Flinn

Re: The best noise gate?
« Reply #56 on: January 05, 2019, 04:25:36 PM »
I am in the process of putting 6 channels of HYPEX amps together for my home system. I put a $20 bid on ebay for a broken AV receiver just to use for jacks and chassis.  8)

JR


I hope you are as pleased with the Hypex amps as I am with mine.
regards Rob

JohnRoberts

Re: The best noise gate?
« Reply #57 on: January 05, 2019, 05:13:43 PM »

I hope you are as pleased with the Hypex amps as I am with mine.
Thanx, I have been a fan of Bruno Putzey's work for a pretty long time so I have no concerns about the sound quality. (He is listed as a mod over at a R/E/P design(?) forum but I haven't seen him post there for years, but neither have I, so I might have missed him... ::) )

Now that the HYPEX modules have universal switching PS built in they are cheaper and easier to incorporate.

JR

PS: Sorry about the veer
Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

alexc

Re: The best noise gate?
« Reply #58 on: January 05, 2019, 09:34:36 PM »
For commercial units, Drawmers were the thing in my limited past studio experience  ...  the two channel ones with additional facilities were the biz for drums.

In today's commercial world, the quad BSS if you can get them .. surely  ...   and if not,  or wanting new, the dbx1074  are fantastic imho and a good investment for a quad package.

 I used the '2knob gate' in the  dbx1066   'comp/limiter/gate' units    and was very happy most of the time.

Same thing with the even more humble 'Art TCS' similar thing - no so much facilities, but clever and really sonically good.

And at the lower cost end, I think one could do worse  ..  a lot worse .. than some Behringer  either the 2 or 4 channels.

And of course, some of the digital ones out there are fantastic - but that's another diy branch of specialisation!

...

DIY is great and I fully understand having a go   ... 

- somewhere between modern vca 'gate application notes' and those commercial ones is a good area of study

Good luck with it - gating is a fine enterprise. I couldn't get by without my ones scattered throughout the place.



I ping therefore I am



 

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