Re: Φ--- faceplate symbol for polarity?
« Reply #40 on: January 16, 2019, 08:28:47 AM »
hello

Just another example...

Best
Zam


fazer

Re: Φ--- faceplate symbol for polarity?
« Reply #41 on: January 16, 2019, 11:22:29 AM »
hello

Just another example...

Best
Zam

works for me

benb

Re: Φ--- faceplate symbol for polarity?
« Reply #42 on: January 17, 2019, 10:09:01 PM »
I think a really good way to show polarity (as opposed to "phase") is to show a waveform that's not symmetric (time-wise, from the middle of the waveform), such as, say, a 20 percent duty cycle rectangular wave. "Positive" polarity has the 20 percent area higher than the rest, and "negative" polarity with it lower than the rest. This cannot (reasonably) be confused with a "180 degree phase shift."

I prefer setting the mics up properly (or using less mics).  ::)

JR

You mean FEWER mics.  ;D

benb

Re: Φ--- faceplate symbol for polarity?
« Reply #43 on: January 17, 2019, 10:17:27 PM »
It isn't phi, it is Ø, (a circle crossed by a diagonal slash). ASCII code 157.
So, what's wrong with using Ø for polarity flip function? :)
Now here's another thing - the ASCII character set dates to the 1960s when it was defined as a 7-bit character set, so there was nothing (standard) over 127. Many terminal makers enabled 8-bit "characters" (with 8-bit serial transfer - only 7 bits was needed for the original ASCII character set), and they each had a different set of "special" characters for 128 through 255.

Then in 1981 the IBM PC came along, and the 128 through 255 characters IT used quickly became the de-facto standard for something that was often called "8-bit ASCII." Many years later I think it was officially adopted by character set standards organizations everywhere.  So now it doesn't matter if you're surfing with a Mac or Chromebook or whatever, the first 256 character codes are from the IBM PC.  Don't ask me about Unicode and the dog-poo emoji.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2019, 10:24:23 PM by benb »

ruffrecords

Re: Φ--- faceplate symbol for polarity?
« Reply #44 on: January 18, 2019, 04:00:09 AM »

One could argue that if one fails to understand the difference between phase & polarity then it'd be best if said user refrains from operating the BUD  8)   OK?  ;)

So all those guys who designed phase splitters for tube power amp over many decades have been ............

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

[silent:arts]

Re: Φ--- faceplate symbol for polarity?
« Reply #45 on: January 18, 2019, 04:15:51 AM »
On my last built mixing console (decades ago) I used symbols similar to attached scribble ...
http://www.hausverwaltung-heger.de/al_leck_trick/Polarity-Symbol.pdf
In old German Broadcast this is "Seitentausch" (left / right channel swap)   ;D

boji

Re: Φ--- faceplate symbol for polarity?
« Reply #46 on: January 18, 2019, 09:45:24 PM »
You guys have presented 3 or 4 symbols for polarity I never dreamed of.  Thanks! 

What have you got to say about indicating dual concentrics?

Careful!  Your first thought is improper...  ;D ;D
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarity_symbols

clintrubber

Re: Φ--- faceplate symbol for polarity?
« Reply #47 on: January 20, 2019, 07:05:29 PM »
So all those guys who designed phase splitters for tube power amp over many decades have been ............

Cheers

Ian

Hi,

That's an interesting point, yes, what is 'splitting phase' actually?   (Not to be confused with splitting hairs)

'Splitting polarity' doesn't make much more sense to me either, I guess my confusion lies in the splitting part of it.

'Swapped(/Flipped/Inverted) Polarity Addition Stage' seems more technically correct, but I figure the world will stick to Phase Splitter  8) .

Bye

JohnRoberts

Re: Φ--- faceplate symbol for polarity?
« Reply #48 on: January 20, 2019, 07:37:13 PM »
Hi,

That's an interesting point, yes, what is 'splitting phase' actually?   (Not to be confused with splitting hairs)

'Splitting polarity' doesn't make much more sense to me either, I guess my confusion lies in the splitting part of it.

'Swapped(/Flipped/Inverted) Polarity Addition Stage' seems more technically correct, but I figure the world will stick to Phase Splitter  8) .

Bye
I am not the tube guy here but I think a "phase splitter" is a very specific circuit that generates equal and opposite versions of a waveform, used in an early stage of an amplifier. But I repeat I am not the tube guy here.. 

Probably possible to do it with a transistor or JFET too but not sure why.

JR
Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

clintrubber

Re: Φ--- faceplate symbol for polarity?
« Reply #49 on: January 20, 2019, 07:56:24 PM »
I am not the tube guy here but I think a "phase splitter" is a very specific circuit that generates equal and opposite versions of a waveform, used in an early stage of an amplifier. But I repeat I am not the tube guy here.. 

Probably possible to do it with a transistor or JFET too but not sure why.

JR

Yes, that's indeed what it does, and is indep. from the active device .... tube, bjt, fet.... and possibly the passive way of doing it with a transformer qualifies for the label ' phase splitter' as well. Was just contemplating the name 'phase splitter', especially the splitter part of it.


abbey road d enfer

Re: Φ--- faceplate symbol for polarity?
« Reply #50 on: January 20, 2019, 10:31:38 PM »
Yes, that's indeed what it does, and is indep. from the active device .... tube, bjt, fet.... and possibly the passive way of doing it with a transformer qualifies for the label ' phase splitter' as well. Was just contemplating the name 'phase splitter', especially the splitter part of it.
Yes, independantly of the actual technology, the term phase-splitter has been sanctified by decades of usage.
One could consider a phase-splitter as a particular case of phase rotator. In power systems, there are transformer-based phase rotators that take a 3-phase feed and transform it in single-phase or balanced feed. A transformer-based phase-splitter could be considered a particular case of this family of phase rotators, which indeed ends up being simpler.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
Star ground is for electricians.

clintrubber

Re: Φ--- faceplate symbol for polarity?
« Reply #51 on: January 21, 2019, 10:36:17 AM »
Yes, independantly of the actual technology, the term phase-splitter has been sanctified by decades of usage.
One could consider a phase-splitter as a particular case of phase rotator. In power systems, there are transformer-based phase rotators that take a 3-phase feed and transform it in single-phase or balanced feed. A transformer-based phase-splitter could be considered a particular case of this family of phase rotators, which indeed ends up being simpler.

Nice addition, now 'splitter' starts to make sense to me.

PRR

Re: Φ--- faceplate symbol for polarity?
« Reply #52 on: January 21, 2019, 08:34:24 PM »
> I think a "phase splitter" is a very specific circuit that generates equal and opposite versions of a waveform

There is a large class of such gizmos.

The basic, used to upgrade a one-6F6 to a two-6F6 output, is a Phase Inverter added to the basic single-ended power amp.

There are many varieties of ParaPhase, which more or less self-balance.

There is the CathoDyne which makes two out-phase outputs with one triode.

There is the Long-Tail, a No-Tail, and a long-head variety.

The Van Scoyoc.

Probably more I have not met.

Oddly THE basic technique, a transformer with CT secondary, rarely rates as "phase splitter" (I'm sure someone calls it that).

They all do the same phase-split thing (with or without added gain). Most also address the needs of driving a power bottle grid to high level. No "specific" one holds the name.


 

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