Matador

Re: this weekend was a rorschach test
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2019, 10:41:58 AM »
@ Matador,  are you critically looking at the same ink blot?
I watched a good deal of the videos online and stand by my assessment.

I'm intrested to read about the evidence that supports this.
Just Google 'Covington Catholic black face'.  >:(


JohnRoberts

Re: this weekend was a rorschach test
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2019, 11:16:16 AM »
I watched a good deal of the videos online and stand by my assessment.
I have been trying to ignore this as just the latest identity politics eruption. The comparison to ink blot tests seems spot on.  8)

The full video is reportedly something like 3 hours long. I wouldn't watch that even if I had all your free time. There are any number of shorter selectively edited versions around telling different stories. That is the only part I find marginally interesting, in an instructive way about media bias.

Apparently several people have already walked back their initial over reactions to this  event after learning more. We seem to be living in a shoot first, aim later (or never) age. Now several days after the event I hope more people have had time to catch their breath and see through the smoke and mirrors.
Quote
Just Google 'Covington Catholic black face'.  >:(
Why?  I don't even like reading that search term. There is a lot of ugliness in the world. I ASSume that is more of that.

IMO there are far more important world events going on (pretty much everything else). This video has gained traction because it checks several boxes for things people love to hate.

JR
John Roberts
http://circularscience.com
Tune it, or don't play it...

dmp

Re: this weekend was a rorschach test
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2019, 11:32:52 AM »
I have been trying to ignore this as just the latest identity politics eruption. The comparison to ink blot tests seems spot on.  8)

...

IMO there are far more important world events going on (pretty much everything else). This video has gained traction because it checks several boxes for things people love to hate.

JR

This is a shiny ball that people love to look at, so the media is selling ads by running stories about it. 
Is stuff that a bunch of protesters shouted at each other really news?
The only interesting part of this is how the media falls all over itself to appear unbiased - so they flagellate themselves for it.   And flagellate is the perfect word for it.
Republicans have been working the refs for decades to achieve just this sort of thing.
Compare the treatment of these high school kids in DC protesting abortion to the kids protesting gun violence that survived a school shooting. A lot of nasty stuff was said on social media about them.  But how was it treated by the media? Particularly the conservative media?


JohnRoberts

Re: this weekend was a rorschach test
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2019, 12:24:38 PM »
This is a shiny ball that people love to look at, so the media is selling ads by running stories about it. 
Is stuff that a bunch of protesters shouted at each other really news?
The only interesting part of this is how the media falls all over itself to appear unbiased - so they flagellate themselves for it.   And flagellate is the perfect word for it.
Republicans have been working the refs for decades to achieve just this sort of thing.
Compare the treatment of these high school kids in DC protesting abortion to the kids protesting gun violence that survived a school shooting. A lot of nasty stuff was said on social media about them.  But how was it treated by the media? Particularly the conservative media?
Another ink blot parallel where you see conservative media bias, others like me, see liberal/progressive media bias.

There was always some personal subjective bias to news reportage, but not as overtly partisan as I perceive now.

The politicians like to keep us arguing with each other, so we don't notice how poorly that are at doing their actual jobs.

JR
John Roberts
http://circularscience.com
Tune it, or don't play it...

scott2000

Re: this weekend was a rorschach test
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2019, 03:38:35 PM »
I've watched this show before....pretty interesting


Manager tells man he needs to remove his MAGA hat | What Would You Do? | WWYD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thRsikyXuSk

JohnRoberts

Re: this weekend was a rorschach test
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2019, 03:45:42 PM »
I've watched this show before....pretty interesting


Manager tells man he needs to remove his MAGA hat | What Would You Do? | WWYD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thRsikyXuSk
Not watch?

JR
John Roberts
http://circularscience.com
Tune it, or don't play it...

pucho812

Re: this weekend was a rorschach test
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2019, 01:20:15 PM »
While it is a "free country" and we are protected to wear hats we like,  things like the first amendment protect us from the gov, not us ina private establishment.  As always the easy answer is be kind, be nice and just go along and keep the peace.  No need to make an ass out of oneself.
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

scott2000

Re: this weekend was a rorschach test
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2019, 01:25:27 AM »
I just got off the phone with my son in CA. He finally enrolled in college and he was telling me about an assignment he was doing for english class. Pick any headline or opinion piece from the front page of the Washington Times and write about your opinion on it?


He said the teacher said it's to promote active citizens>>> :-\

figures he'd pick the VA Gov story......

And I thought figuring out what "kinder hard" meant was tough.....

boji

Re: this weekend was a rorschach test
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2019, 07:42:11 AM »
Quote
He said the teacher said it's to promote active citizens

This really bugs the **** out of me.  You should be teaching your students how to think critically and adopt opposing perspectives (steel manning) so as to learn how to be persuasive.

Quote
front page of the Washington Times

Tell your kid to write a paper on why the "Washington Times" is a left leaning news outlet and why it's wrong to prime students to believe WT headlines are a neutral source of topic analysis.

scott2000

Re: this weekend was a rorschach test
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2019, 08:28:26 AM »

Tell your kid to write a paper on why the "Washington Times" is a left leaning news outlet and why it's wrong to prime students to believe WT headlines are a neutral source of topic analysis.

It was late when I posted this.  I think I may have the publication wrong? I say this because I can't find the same articles on any pages that I was looking at then? Weird.... I remember quite clearly two specific front page articles and can't find them.

I'll keep looking......... For my own sanity.....

What do they change stuff in the middle of the night???? This is really bugging me....

And I always thought WT was right leaning but, when I looked last night at bias check, I could swear it said left leaning.....This morning it says right leaning...... maybe I typed Post on accident but  don't think so.....





boji

Re: this weekend was a rorschach test
« Reply #30 on: February 05, 2019, 08:32:38 AM »
Quote
Just Google 'Covington Catholic black face'.  >:(
Btw I was going to let this one go, but since the thread got resurrected...

I did look this up and in addition to 'blackout' they have white face, blue face and other colors that are for promoting school pride during basketball games.  While I agree 'blackout' was an incredibly stupid and embarrassing choice that invites ridicule, it is yet again, not an example of students consciously promoting racist ideas.
 
When did it become respectable to measure the degree of objective intent by how much subjective offence can be extracted out of offenders' behavior?

boji

Re: this weekend was a rorschach test
« Reply #31 on: February 05, 2019, 08:45:53 AM »
Quote
I think I may have the publication wrong?
Hey, I might've got it wrong too.  I think I jumped on thinking of the Wash Post.

Quote
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/washington-times/

Left or right, I hope the teacher at least warned the kids in advance that the paper's headline selection likely fits with its political leanings.

Scodiddly

Re: this weekend was a rorschach test
« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2019, 08:52:15 AM »
...hateful speech and racist goading of the Hebrew Israelites.  Just imagine if the words stayed the same, but the ethnicities of the groups involved had been reversed.

I'm starting to get the feeling that a lot of my friends and family would not be welcome here, and I'm probably not going to bother coming back.

scott2000

Re: this weekend was a rorschach test
« Reply #33 on: February 05, 2019, 08:56:29 AM »
Left or right, I hope the teacher at least warned the kids in advance that the paper's headline selection likely fits with its political leanings.

It's weird because I was trying to persuade him to pick the article about AI because it would be a bit less crazy but, I can't find it anywhere.... and the VA Gov article that "was" there is missing..... I'm going to call him in a bit to find out if he is seeing the same thing....

I agree about the being open to certain biases.  I'm not sure what her  (the teacher) intentions are. She said to them she doesn't care what view they take on whatever they choose to write about......

Maybe she'll be looking for grammatical errors.......

JohnRoberts

Re: this weekend was a rorschach test
« Reply #34 on: February 05, 2019, 09:19:45 AM »
It was late when I posted this.  I think I may have the publication wrong? I say this because I can't find the same articles on any pages that I was looking at then? Weird.... I remember quite clearly two specific front page articles and can't find them.

I'll keep looking......... For my own sanity.....

What do they change stuff in the middle of the night???? This is really bugging me....
Newspapers can edit stories, especially if they are wrong.
Quote
And I always thought WT was right leaning but, when I looked last night at bias check, I could swear it said left leaning.....This morning it says right leaning...... maybe I typed Post on accident but  don't think so.....
They call it left-center. My bet is on leaning toward pleasing the boss/owner (Jeff Bezos).

JR
John Roberts
http://circularscience.com
Tune it, or don't play it...

scott2000

Re: this weekend was a rorschach test
« Reply #35 on: February 05, 2019, 10:54:06 AM »
Newspapers can edit stories, especially if they are wrong.


That's reassuring......

I thought I was being gaslighted.....lol

Matador

Re: this weekend was a rorschach test
« Reply #36 on: February 05, 2019, 11:24:19 AM »
When did it become respectable to measure the degree of objective intent by how much subjective offence can be extracted out of offenders' behavior?
Since the emergence of the modern court system back in Roman times?

I don't blame the students fully, as they are just kids.  But it demonstrates a tremendous shortsightedness on the part of the adults surrounding these kids in this particular place.  The fact that nobody told these kids about racial sensitivity speaks volumes about the environment in which they are being raised.

Stated another way, would we still be arguing about 'objective intent' if the students showed up wearing full on SS uniforms to promote 'school spirit'?  Everyone (should know) exactly what those symbols mean, and the history behind them, and if they don';t they should be sternly taught.

dmp

Re: this weekend was a rorschach test
« Reply #37 on: February 05, 2019, 11:31:25 AM »
The Washington Post and the Washington Times are different newspapers but seem to be interchanged here

The Washington Post is considered left leaning and is owned by Bezos

The Washington Times is conservative leaning. 

Any reputable newspaper will append a note at the bottom of articles that have had corrections.

boji

Re: this weekend was a rorschach test
« Reply #38 on: February 05, 2019, 02:15:27 PM »
Quote
Since the emergence of the modern court system back in Roman times?
Thanks for replying Matador.
I'm sure anyone convicted of a crime would prefer to be charged by facts not by how victimized the accuser feels but kangaroo courts have been around a long time, to be sure.  I've just never found it respectable.

Quote
The fact that nobody told these kids about racial sensitivity speaks volumes about the environment in which they are being raised.
True.  I guess we'll have to disagree on which volumes, a bit tho.  One thing we could all use more of is compassion. I wonder if the collective rush-to-judgment is born out of collective fear of our own capacity to be like the people we detest. The Jungian shadow-self thing but on a macro scale, perhaps.

Quote
Stated another way, would we still be arguing about 'objective intent' if the students showed up wearing full on SS uniforms to promote 'school spirit'?
If anyone has access to the internet, it'd be upper middle-class catholic kids.  You could make the case that in the information age, the cost of not knowing history has begun to be weighted differently, a cost that includes  'crimes of ignorance',  since information has never been more readily available.  Fascinating the increase of  fake news as well, almost like it's acting as a sort of blow-off valve from the pressures of needing to feel plugged-in and on the right side of history while the body of available info and speed of emerging news increases  exponentially.

boji

Re: this weekend was a rorschach test
« Reply #39 on: February 05, 2019, 02:33:23 PM »
Quote
I'm starting to get the feeling that a lot of my friends and family would not be welcome here, and I'm probably not going to bother coming back.

Scodiddly!!!

You do know the "Hebrew Israelites" I mentioned are a fringe religious group listed on the SPLC's website as an extremist hate group, and I was not talking about Jewish people or Judaism et al, right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Hebrew_Israelites


 

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