roger.unc

Neumann KH310s - add a sub?
« on: February 01, 2019, 11:14:30 PM »
Hi - I have a pair of Neumann KH310 monitors. They sound great, I'm happy. Does anyone have any advice or experience adding a sub woofer into the equation? My ultimate goal is for a faithful/unhyped response to mix on that translates to other audio setups. Since a lot of the mix battles are fought in the midrange, I'm wondering if a sub is worth it and whether ya'll use one.

Cheers,
Roger


john12ax7

Re: Neumann KH310s - add a sub?
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2019, 01:19:17 AM »
I use a cheap KRK sub with them.  It helps give a little more low end,  but only turned on occasionally.  The bass can easily get too hyped and less accurate,  but it's nice for checking things towards the end..

For mixing I would also suggest a smaller second pair of speakers.  The KH310s sound really nice,  but I found for me I needed a two way or 1 way design (like the mix cubes)  to really get the midrange right.

leitmo

Re: Neumann KH310s - add a sub?
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2019, 12:53:15 AM »
For that price and monitor size I would expect no bass lack. It goes down to 34Hz at +-3dB!

What about acoustic treatment?
You should have plenty of bass but tell nothing about how your room gets along with those gigantic sound waves

Adding a sub implies a lot of variables to setup equation and if you can not trust 100% on your acoustics you would end up doing more harm than good

I work with Genelec 8050 in a great treated room without sub and there's no need lack of bass (mixing everything from acoustic wide dynamics to squashed rock and electronic music).

If you work with Neumann monitors then go for Neumann sub.
If you could afford 310's but cannot get Neumann sub invest in acoustic treatment and monitor placement. It's 90% of the way. Just my 2 cents.

roger.unc

Re: Neumann KH310s - add a sub?
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2019, 07:14:19 PM »
Thank you both for the input! I think I would want to stay with a neumann sub, but that would be pricey. So maybe I will look into supplementing the GIK bass traps I have in the corners and on the walls.

pucho812

Re: Neumann KH310s - add a sub?
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2019, 07:09:58 PM »
one of our rooms  here has 310's and the Neumann sub.  If it were me I would move them elsewhere as the room they are in is too small for that set up. It sounds good though.
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

roger.unc

Re: Neumann KH310s - add a sub?
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2019, 12:48:39 AM »
Hi Pucho - do you recall the approximate dimensions of your control room with the 310s? Just curious. What don't you like with that room set up? Thx, Rog.

pucho812

Re: Neumann KH310s - add a sub?
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2019, 02:15:57 PM »
Hi Pucho - do you recall the approximate dimensions of your control room with the 310s? Just curious. What don't you like with that room set up? Thx, Rog.

Well Roger,  It's not my control room. It's one of many rooms I have built and maintain in town.  in this case the room in question is a duel control room with 2 X control rooms sharing a space that handle two separate live rooms.   It's not a music room, it's mainly podcasting and radio and often times people wear headphones  when working in there. The gear that was specced for this room was done by another and he saw the big pocket book and made the call. I just put it all in.   The dims are small and the sub is too much for that room. It sounds fab though. If I had that setup it I would need more space.
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

roger.unc

Re: Neumann KH310s - add a sub?
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2019, 02:22:12 PM »
Cool. Thanks for the extra info!

iturnknobs

Re: Neumann KH310s - add a sub?
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2019, 10:02:20 AM »

If you work with Neumann monitors then go for Neumann sub.
If you could afford 310's but cannot get Neumann sub invest in acoustic treatment and monitor placement. It's 90% of the way. Just my 2 cents.

I think many of our control room environments may have undesirable characteristics. My sure does. I have a pair of Genelec 1032As, a pair of Mackie HR824s and a pair of KRK 10-3s(retired to the TV room for movies). I have tried a couple of subs(not Genelec and maybe that's the issue, but I doubt it) with mediocre results. I decided on a Velodyne DD15+. IMO, either the tops or subs needed DSP to "line-up" the two systems. I did not want to introduce DSP to my "audible" system. The Velodyne has multiple presets, fully adjustable LPF/HPF, LW Riley, Butterworth, multiple parametric points, high/low shelving, phase angle and delay all on board. As much as I would like to do manufacturing matching(and I'm sure there was PLENTY of R&D done for matching), the speed of sound, along with space constraints forced me to make a different choice.  My 1032As can't even keep up with this sub at 50%, and after EQ, it is virtually flat down to about 18hz. I am not affiliated with Velodyne in anyway. All I am saying is I think buying a sub capable of extended frequencies with DSP(regardless of manufacturer) is the right way to go unless one has the space and shape to physically place both systems for optimal response. I cant' change the laws of physics, and if I could, I would probably have a different job/title. I hope this helps and doesn't complicate your decision.

roger.unc

Re: Neumann KH310s - add a sub?
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2019, 12:34:25 AM »
iturnknobs, thank you for that. I agree with you that the biggest problem is likely physics - i.e., non-ideal room dimensions.  I realize that if the room dimensions are going to produce peaks or nulls at the wrong frequencies, pumping in more bass isn't going to solve the problem, and may make it worse. Definitely food for thought when choosing between the KH 805 (no DSP) and the KH 750 (with DSP). Maybe DSP can help with that, at least in my listening position.

Thanks again, Roger.


leitmo

Re: Neumann KH310s - add a sub?
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2019, 06:30:45 AM »
deep bass trapping, monitor placement, measurement and repeat is waaaaaay cheaper and rewarding than trying to "solve" room issues adding another variable to equation

Oh I see, we all prefer to get more knobs to tweak

Seeker

Re: Neumann KH310s - add a sub?
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2019, 08:24:23 PM »
deep bass trapping, monitor placement, measurement and repeat is waaaaaay cheaper and rewarding than trying to "solve" room issues adding another variable to equation


I agree with this philosophy...  if you are suffering from a perceived lack of bass from the kh310s you may be sitting in a null spot.   Bass trapping at the front and back of your room and/or moving your monitors is prob going to get you the best results.  You can always add a sub after you’ve exhausted acoustic treatment solutions. 
"Sometimes you have to play a long time to be able to play like yourself.” - Miles


 

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