Recommendations on how I can learn to build a Sony C800G clone
« on: February 14, 2019, 11:26:21 PM »
I have been mixing for a while. I normally use a u87 and Manley although the manley sounds similar to the Sony it’s just not the same. I am spoiled after traveling to la and finally getting to use one in a session myself. I don’t have the money to buy a legit original one. I have also never built a microphone but I am eager to learn. Do any of you have any recommendations on how I can  learn how to build a clone of the Sony C800G? Or a link to a kit of some sort? I know the Russian tubes sound better on it and it replicates a k67 capsule. Anyways, if any of you can point me to the right direction on how I can achieve my goal and learn to do this please respond!!
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 04:12:57 PM by Deadrecords »


Re: Recommendations on how I can learn to build a Sony C800G clone
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2019, 02:19:48 AM »
I don't know if there's been any clones that are actually similar to the C800G.  You can check out whichever Advanced Audio mic is modeled after the C800G, but it not might be an accurate recreation.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 03:59:18 AM by Icantthinkofaname »

Re: Recommendations on how I can learn to build a Sony C800G clone
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2019, 04:08:17 AM »
Thank you for your reply! I saw the cmt but I have not heard  and couldn't find any actual files, or reviews from it.

Re: Recommendations on how I can learn to build a Sony C800G clone
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2019, 04:16:34 AM »
Thank you for your reply! I saw the cmt but I have not heard  and couldn't find any actual files, or reviews from it.
This thread has a bit of info:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/1165366-advanced-audio-cm800t-aas-take-sony-c800g-4.html

Re: Recommendations on how I can learn to build a Sony C800G clone
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2019, 04:17:38 AM »
Well the biggest challegne would be to find a capsule that is spot on to get c800 sound.

Yes that Manley capsule is very close, but i doubt you could get closer without buying the actual sony capsule, which costs an arm and a leg.

The capsule is the most important part, then headbasket, and eventually everything else as the circuit is flat, and doesn't do much to affect the sound of that mic.

Khron

Re: Recommendations on how I can learn to build a Sony C800G clone
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2019, 06:08:26 AM »
Wasn't the capsule just some K67-like one? I may very well be mistaken, though...
Khron's Cave - Electronics - Audio - Teardowns - Mods - Repairs - Projects - Music - Rants - Shenanigans

Gus

Re: Recommendations on how I can learn to build a Sony C800G clone
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2019, 06:15:28 AM »
 Things that can matter (one version) in descending order.

Capsule, grill, capsule mount, output transformer(lams used, winding),  tube (needs selection), power supply because of the current and some other parts of the design , tube cryopump, body, parts used type value etc.

All that can matter.

The cooler is to adsorb the molecules in the tube to the glass wall longer because of the glass being cooler.

So without at least a  few of the above building a clone might be difficult because of obtaining the correct parts.

I believe people are missing a lot of what is a different about this design from what is posted on the web. I have not seen some of what I noticed about the circuits used posted.

With a triode out to transformer microphone the capsule and the environment around it and the output transformer matter a lot.

Now a person might not understand this unless they have built a number of microphones trying different parts and mechanical and circuit configurations.

Re: Recommendations on how I can learn to build a Sony C800G clone
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2019, 07:19:09 AM »
Have you tried the Sony C100? It sounds pretty close to the C800 at a much lower price.

Re: Recommendations on how I can learn to build a Sony C800G clone
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2019, 07:26:22 AM »
Have you tried the Sony C100? It sounds pretty close to the C800 at a much lower price.

+1
And i actually think it's a better mic. If it were 3.000$ everyone would be raving about ut.

Delta Sigma

Re: Recommendations on how I can learn to build a Sony C800G clone
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2019, 10:15:38 AM »
No experience with it but there's the JJ Atika.

http://jjaudiomic.com/Akita.php


Re: Recommendations on how I can learn to build a Sony C800G clone
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2019, 08:17:22 PM »
This thread has a bit of info:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/1165366-advanced-audio-cm800t-aas-take-sony-c800g-4.html

Thank you for this I am going to have to look more into this. I do think based off of what I am hearing they do sound very similar.

Re: Recommendations on how I can learn to build a Sony C800G clone
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2019, 08:19:36 PM »
Well the biggest challegne would be to find a capsule that is spot on to get c800 sound.

Yes that Manley capsule is very close, but i doubt you could get closer without buying the actual sony capsule, which costs an arm and a leg.

The capsule is the most important part, then headbasket, and eventually everything else as the circuit is flat, and doesn't do much to affect the sound of that mic.

I understand this I am really looking for someone to point me to a article, video or book where I can learn how to put these parts together when I find them and create a functional working mic.

Re: Recommendations on how I can learn to build a Sony C800G clone
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2019, 08:22:00 PM »
Wasn't the capsule just some K67-like one? I may very well be mistaken, though...

I had meant to type K67 not 87 I am sorry.

Re: Recommendations on how I can learn to build a Sony C800G clone
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2019, 08:23:05 PM »
Things that can matter (one version) in descending order.

Capsule, grill, capsule mount, output transformer(lams used, winding),  tube (needs selection), power supply because of the current and some other parts of the design , tube cryopump, body, parts used type value etc.

All that can matter.

The cooler is to adsorb the molecules in the tube to the glass wall longer because of the glass being cooler.

So without at least a  few of the above building a clone might be difficult because of obtaining the correct parts.

I believe people are missing a lot of what is a different about this design from what is posted on the web. I have not seen some of what I noticed about the circuits used posted.

With a triode out to transformer microphone the capsule and the environment around it and the output transformer matter a lot.

Now a person might not understand this unless they have built a number of microphones trying different parts and mechanical and circuit configurations.

I understand this I am really looking for someone to point me to a article, video or book where I can learn how to put these parts together when I finally have completed my research and find  the parts I am looking for to create a functional working mic.

gyraf

Re: Recommendations on how I can learn to build a Sony C800G clone
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2019, 02:40:38 AM »
Deadrecords,

Please think of what you are asking.

You want a paint-by-numbers kit for a 10000$ microphone.

More or less everything that has been dissected and kit'ified around here is now also brought to you cheaply by Warm, Stam, Klark & Co.

So no, it's not that easy. The suggestions above all try to point you in a direction where YOU could do some of the work, possibly learning something in the process.

Jakob E.
..note to self: don't let Harman run your company..

Re: Recommendations on how I can learn to build a Sony C800G clone
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2019, 03:29:37 AM »
Deadrecords,

Please think of what you are asking.

You want a paint-by-numbers kit for a 10000$ microphone.

More or less everything that has been dissected and kit'ified around here is now also brought to you cheaply by Warm, Stam, Klark & Co.

So no, it's not that easy. The suggestions above all try to point you in a direction where YOU could do some of the work, possibly learning something in the process.

Jakob E.

I think you aren't understanding what I am asking.  I am not asking for a kit to build a sony c800g I asking to get pointed in the right direction on how I can learn to assemble a microphone after I have found the correct parts via online research. I have never put together a microphone.  Where can I learn how to assemble a advanced microphone configuration if I were to  find the parts and read the schematics?  So say say I have found all the parts I need. How do I go about learning how to actually assemble it? 

gyraf

Re: Recommendations on how I can learn to build a Sony C800G clone
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2019, 03:56:45 AM »
The point is there is no single resource.

Work your way into this, read up on all the related threads here and in other forums, build a couple of mics or ten, and then you'll gradually get an idea about how to achieve a specific thing.

There's no going there directly.

To put it into perspective, a friend of mine has spent ALL his time the last 17 years trying to understand what exactly goes on inside one famous Austrian microphone capsule. Yes, he's getting there - and No, it's not because he's slow - for every partial behavior he discovers, there are interactions with multiple others, making the whole an utterly complex mechanism for such a simple device.

It is a surprisingly complicated field.

Which also makes so rewarding to those that are prepared to spend the time and do the deep diving.

Much less so for the impatient.

A starting point could be e.g. my now very-old page about the G7: http://gyraf.dk/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/DIY-Tube-Microphone.pdf - or the classic Debanham/Stebbings http://www.sdiy.org/oid/ldc/Debenham-StereoCondenser.pdf - both discussed extensively in this forum, if you look under /Microphones

Jakob E.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 04:05:59 AM by gyraf »
..note to self: don't let Harman run your company..

Re: Recommendations on how I can learn to build a Sony C800G clone
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2019, 08:15:31 AM »
The point is there is no single resource.

Work your way into this, read up on all the related threads here and in other forums, build a couple of mics or ten, and then you'll gradually get an idea about how to achieve a specific thing.

There's no going there directly.

To put it into perspective, a friend of mine has spent ALL his time the last 17 years trying to understand what exactly goes on inside one famous Austrian microphone capsule. Yes, he's getting there - and No, it's not because he's slow - for every partial behavior he discovers, there are interactions with multiple others, making the whole an utterly complex mechanism for such a simple device.

It is a surprisingly complicated field.

Which also makes so rewarding to those that are prepared to spend the time and do the deep diving.

Much less so for the impatient.

A starting point could be e.g. my now very-old page about the G7: http://gyraf.dk/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/DIY-Tube-Microphone.pdf - or the classic Debanham/Stebbings http://www.sdiy.org/oid/ldc/Debenham-StereoCondenser.pdf - both discussed extensively in this forum, if you look under /Microphones

Jakob E.

ahhh I see. I will definitely check these articles out and start my journey. Thank you!

Gus

Re: Recommendations on how I can learn to build a Sony C800G clone
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2019, 10:07:26 AM »
Deadrecords,

Please think of what you are asking.

You want a paint-by-numbers kit for a 10000$ microphone.

More or less everything that has been dissected and kit'ified around here is now also brought to you cheaply by Warm, Stam, Klark & Co.

So no, it's not that easy. The suggestions above all try to point you in a direction where YOU could do some of the work, possibly learning something in the process.

Jakob E.

Jakob

This post and your following post in this thread would make a nice microphone forum sticky



Re: Recommendations on how I can learn to build a Sony C800G clone
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2019, 01:59:54 AM »
I would also put in a plug for a kit microphone, like those from Microphone Parts, or some of the ones available through the community here for a beginner.

Yes, for M-P, you could do it more cheaply, but for a rank beginner, learning to solder, deflux a Board, deal with the high Z parts of a circuit, handle a delicate capsule,  etc, are essential skills,and the instructions are very good. You won’t have to bias a FET mic your first time out if that is the route you choose because the bias resistor is chosen for you, so you don’t need expensive test equipment to start.  There are tube options.

I considered the extra expense part of my initial education,  and now have moved on... just a thought. ..

My G7 build follows Banzai’s KM84s....once you get the bug, it never stops...

—Mark


 

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