Aah, makes sense. Thanks!
/Jakob E.
/Jakob E.
Recommendations on how I can learn to build a Sony C800G clone
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demode_iowa
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kingkorg said:
Luke Audio LA-6G capsule
Can you back up this claim with some measurements? This capsule has the same exact backplate as RK87, with some fancy tension rings which is a marketing trick seen many times before.
Luke claims it's 1 micron mylar(BS), sputtered with platinum. Even if it were true, none is the case with c800g capsule.
Luke claims it's 1 micron mylar(BS), sputtered with platinum. Even if it were true, none is the case with c800g capsule.
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kingkorg said:
VERY strong accusations kingkorg. I certainly hope you have very strong evidence and measurements you will share instantly. Can we assume you at least have some of his capsules? Your words seemed much much stronger than a hunch, so I certainly hope so.
Measurements of 1 micron mylar? Measurements of what is obviously RK87 backplate? Kidding right?
Have you tried to make a functioning diaphragm out of 1 micron mylar? Shure mics couldn't go under 2.5 microns and keep them stable, so i guess Luke has technology others don't.
Do you know of any 1 micron mylar capsules out there made by reputable manufacturers?
Should i also explain how c800 doesn't have platinum sputtered diaphragm? And what platinum and aluminium sputtered capsules have as a common issue?
All of these things are common knowledge. Just like "Peluso" capsule manufacturing model.
Have you tried to make a functioning diaphragm out of 1 micron mylar? Shure mics couldn't go under 2.5 microns and keep them stable, so i guess Luke has technology others don't.
Do you know of any 1 micron mylar capsules out there made by reputable manufacturers?
Should i also explain how c800 doesn't have platinum sputtered diaphragm? And what platinum and aluminium sputtered capsules have as a common issue?
All of these things are common knowledge. Just like "Peluso" capsule manufacturing model.
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kingkorg said:
If it’s so obviously specifically stock RK87 backplates as you claim, as opposed to modded ones, or different than any other manufactured K87 backplates by anyone, or any other difference, then it should be easy to present your findings.
You’re right it’s obviously K67/87, edge-terminated backplates, that’s what’s obvious and no one, including Luke Audio is cleaning otherwise.
So you’re really claiming 1-micron capsules don’t exist, that no one has the technology/capability, when Stephen Paul was doing 3-micron in 1980 (and majorly contributed for 3-micron to becoming so common for years now) and 1-micron, I don’t know exactly when, but he was doing it in the 90’s; and even got down to 0.04-micron before he passed in early 2003? If so, you’re the first one I’ve ever heard to make the claim. It was dependability-issue claims for the longest time, but it’s now more turned into that they just don’t like them; mostly people trying to replace genuine Neumann or AKG capsules with thinner counterparts on otherwise, mostly stock genuine Neumann or AKG microphones.
Who ever associated C800 or C800G capsules and platinum?
So what’s the common issue with platinum and aluminum?
So show us all they’re just another Peluso.
0.04-micron mylar film? Are you sure we are talking about the same stuff? That is metal plated 0.04 micro meters film. I am sure that does not exist.
Yes it is possible to make it out of 1 micron mylar, but the diaphragm won't hold propper tension over time, nor take any kind of abuse. Platinum, silver, aluminium, nickel plating are all inferior to gold. Tons of papers on that.
Luke claims his LA-6G is a c800g type capsule, yet it has platinum coated diaphragm, which is nuts as the c800g doesn't. His LA-6 is k67 type capsule which is of wrong dimensions, it's 32 instead of 34mm. He's got basics wrong, why should anyone trust his claims, the basics are off.
Here's a quote from someone you would trust more than me i believe. Marik says:
"When developing capsule for our TF08 condenser microphone we tried everything between 1 and 6 micron. The 1 and 2 micron felt too fragile and unstable, so we rejected those. In the same conditions (i.e. same backplate dimensions and spacing) we did not detect much sonic differences between 3 and 6 micron."
Reply #7
https://realgearonline.com/thread/9876/mic-capsules-6-micron-less
Yes it is possible to make it out of 1 micron mylar, but the diaphragm won't hold propper tension over time, nor take any kind of abuse. Platinum, silver, aluminium, nickel plating are all inferior to gold. Tons of papers on that.
Luke claims his LA-6G is a c800g type capsule, yet it has platinum coated diaphragm, which is nuts as the c800g doesn't. His LA-6 is k67 type capsule which is of wrong dimensions, it's 32 instead of 34mm. He's got basics wrong, why should anyone trust his claims, the basics are off.
Here's a quote from someone you would trust more than me i believe. Marik says:
"When developing capsule for our TF08 condenser microphone we tried everything between 1 and 6 micron. The 1 and 2 micron felt too fragile and unstable, so we rejected those. In the same conditions (i.e. same backplate dimensions and spacing) we did not detect much sonic differences between 3 and 6 micron."
Reply #7
https://realgearonline.com/thread/9876/mic-capsules-6-micron-less
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Sorry, obvious most-definitely meant 0.4-micron Mylar film... Is a typo I missed.
You say all other those metals are inferior to gold, yet Marik, who you reference, chose aluminum on Mylar for his capsule, as did Martin at Nordic Audio Labs for his capsule; both of whom I find at the top of their game and with true innovation, in my opinion. You can speak of dependability and durability all you want, but should they last 20-years, 10-years, or 5-years, it’s worth going with what one truly prefers by ear; which is what they went with, given all the other specs of their respective capsules. Just like everything else, it’s all a balancing-act, so to only consider gold because all other metals are inferior is simply foolish.
I’ve yet to see anyone else claiming Luke Audio capsules are replicas of anything; not them, not me, not anyone. Clearly they are not replicas or trying to be at all. With different backplate sizes, 1-micron Mylar platinum diaphragms, different blind-holes to accommodate such a diaphragm, and some edge-terminated K67/K87s, that’s beyond obvious. Still, you’re claiming an attempt of wool being pulled over the eyes. Come-on.
You say all other those metals are inferior to gold, yet Marik, who you reference, chose aluminum on Mylar for his capsule, as did Martin at Nordic Audio Labs for his capsule; both of whom I find at the top of their game and with true innovation, in my opinion. You can speak of dependability and durability all you want, but should they last 20-years, 10-years, or 5-years, it’s worth going with what one truly prefers by ear; which is what they went with, given all the other specs of their respective capsules. Just like everything else, it’s all a balancing-act, so to only consider gold because all other metals are inferior is simply foolish.
I’ve yet to see anyone else claiming Luke Audio capsules are replicas of anything; not them, not me, not anyone. Clearly they are not replicas or trying to be at all. With different backplate sizes, 1-micron Mylar platinum diaphragms, different blind-holes to accommodate such a diaphragm, and some edge-terminated K67/K87s, that’s beyond obvious. Still, you’re claiming an attempt of wool being pulled over the eyes. Come-on.
..you got your quote marks wrong - let me fix that for you:kingkorg said:
;D
And I wouldn't really put too much into what SP claimed or did - all respect to the diseased and so, but if anyone was full of it, it was him. I've so far only encountered horrible examples of his work.
/Jakob E.
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That may be so with you and plenty others. On the other hand, plenty of others, experienced the opposite end. George Massenburg would be one of the most notable and vocal.
I’m absolutely dumb-founded there’s actually a debate brought about by 2-people now of what Stephen Paul claimed or did. Debate durability. Debate sound quality. But this is erasing well-known history. People tell me 0.8-micron aluminum diaphragms are without a doubt, absolutely impossible, even though Neumann did it with great success in sound in the 1950’s! You might as well be telling me that didn’t happen either.
I’m absolutely dumb-founded there’s actually a debate brought about by 2-people now of what Stephen Paul claimed or did. Debate durability. Debate sound quality. But this is erasing well-known history. People tell me 0.8-micron aluminum diaphragms are without a doubt, absolutely impossible, even though Neumann did it with great success in sound in the 1950’s! You might as well be telling me that didn’t happen either.
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kingkorg said:
Wow. Just wow. The level of denial is overwhelming. Go on living in your alt-world I suppose.
It's really hard to figure out if you are trolling or you just don't believe in the mechanics of such very-tiny-dimension plastic film. No disrespect meant.
Have you ever handled, say, normal 9-micron PET film as used in run-of-the-mill capsules?
I've played around with 5my version enough to really regret even trying. Which is why I don't feel bad on calling BS on claims of less-than-1my-film large-diaphragme membranes
You ARE aware that the micron number is referring to the metric system, aren't you?
And you ARE aware of the qualitative difference between metallized PET-film and full-metal-film?
/Jakob E.
Have you ever handled, say, normal 9-micron PET film as used in run-of-the-mill capsules?
I've played around with 5my version enough to really regret even trying. Which is why I don't feel bad on calling BS on claims of less-than-1my-film large-diaphragme membranes
You ARE aware that the micron number is referring to the metric system, aren't you?
And you ARE aware of the qualitative difference between metallized PET-film and full-metal-film?
/Jakob E.
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Trolling, most definitely not.
Yes I know the metric system. Yes I know the differences between metallized PET film and full metal film. I’ve been around a while.
I have Samar Audio’s capsules with thier aluminum evaporated on 6-micron Mylar diaphragms. I have Nordic Audio Labs’ capsule with its 6-micron aluminum diaphragm. I have super-cheap Chinese 4-micron aluminum diaphragm capsules that are amazing with your own additional QC. I have gold and platinum on 1-micron Mylar capsules that I will continue to believe they are as presented until someone shows otherwise.
Look, just because you, I, or nearly everyone can’t do something, doesn’t mean it can’t be done. I for one can’t even deal with plastic wrap to cover leftovers without wanting to throw it all away every time! Seriously. So, no, I would never even attempted playing with 9-micron PET. If you regretted attempting 5-micron, I doubt you would ever attempt 3-micron; yet that’s extremely-common today, so much so that it’s pretty ho-hum now; it certainly wasn’t when Stephen was on this earth. Surely no one would claim BS on that, I hope!
Everyone I’ve talked to says 0.8-micron aluminum diaphragms are impossible, yet Neumann did it. When Neumann couldn’t, service them, they were sent to SPA, because they could. There’s no “maybe”about any of it.
I’ve seen all kinds of slights toward Stephen over the years, all debatable if one desires, since the beginning of rec.audio.pro, but this is the first time I’ve ever seen claims of “BS, doesn’t exist”. Claiming a con of 30-years, one better come with some damning evidence.
In the meantime, in the real-world, a studio in town still enjoys their lovely SPA-modded 251 (granted its 3-micron Mylar) after at probably 25-30 years and another studio in town enjoys their lovely Ronin Applied Sciences Pegasus with it’s 1-micron Mylar capsule by SPA. I’ve recorded with it a few times and it’s amazing, just as amazing as the Klaus Heyne modded 251s I’ve recorded with at a studio in Oakland. I have Luke Audio 1-micron capsules in mics just as amazing any of those. At this level, it’s simply a matter of opinion, on this source, in this room, on this day.
In case someone wasn’t aware, for whatever reason, the six degrees game is an extremely quick one with people offering 1-micron Mylar capsules. Tracy Korby worked at Stephen Paul Audio. Shannon Rhoades worked at Korby Audio. Allen Luke worked at MicRehab. I believe there’s a reason for that. Interpret however you’d like.
Yes I know the metric system. Yes I know the differences between metallized PET film and full metal film. I’ve been around a while.
I have Samar Audio’s capsules with thier aluminum evaporated on 6-micron Mylar diaphragms. I have Nordic Audio Labs’ capsule with its 6-micron aluminum diaphragm. I have super-cheap Chinese 4-micron aluminum diaphragm capsules that are amazing with your own additional QC. I have gold and platinum on 1-micron Mylar capsules that I will continue to believe they are as presented until someone shows otherwise.
Look, just because you, I, or nearly everyone can’t do something, doesn’t mean it can’t be done. I for one can’t even deal with plastic wrap to cover leftovers without wanting to throw it all away every time! Seriously. So, no, I would never even attempted playing with 9-micron PET. If you regretted attempting 5-micron, I doubt you would ever attempt 3-micron; yet that’s extremely-common today, so much so that it’s pretty ho-hum now; it certainly wasn’t when Stephen was on this earth. Surely no one would claim BS on that, I hope!
Everyone I’ve talked to says 0.8-micron aluminum diaphragms are impossible, yet Neumann did it. When Neumann couldn’t, service them, they were sent to SPA, because they could. There’s no “maybe”about any of it.
I’ve seen all kinds of slights toward Stephen over the years, all debatable if one desires, since the beginning of rec.audio.pro, but this is the first time I’ve ever seen claims of “BS, doesn’t exist”. Claiming a con of 30-years, one better come with some damning evidence.
In the meantime, in the real-world, a studio in town still enjoys their lovely SPA-modded 251 (granted its 3-micron Mylar) after at probably 25-30 years and another studio in town enjoys their lovely Ronin Applied Sciences Pegasus with it’s 1-micron Mylar capsule by SPA. I’ve recorded with it a few times and it’s amazing, just as amazing as the Klaus Heyne modded 251s I’ve recorded with at a studio in Oakland. I have Luke Audio 1-micron capsules in mics just as amazing any of those. At this level, it’s simply a matter of opinion, on this source, in this room, on this day.
In case someone wasn’t aware, for whatever reason, the six degrees game is an extremely quick one with people offering 1-micron Mylar capsules. Tracy Korby worked at Stephen Paul Audio. Shannon Rhoades worked at Korby Audio. Allen Luke worked at MicRehab. I believe there’s a reason for that. Interpret however you’d like.
Thanks for the extensive answer - I guess we will just have to wait to evaluate the truthfullness of the 1-micron Mylar adventure
As for SP, I'm not implying that he didn't do 3my membranes, just that 1) neither nice or stable, from the few ones I've seen on this side of the pond and 2) he emitted much BS and smokescreen about mic capsule technology
/Jakob E.
As for SP, I'm not implying that he didn't do 3my membranes, just that 1) neither nice or stable, from the few ones I've seen on this side of the pond and 2) he emitted much BS and smokescreen about mic capsule technology
/Jakob E.
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gyraf said:
All valid and debatable. Others have different experiences; including ones that are not mostly in a state of disrepair. In fact, is that all or most of your experience? I’d find it rather unfair and frustrating if anyone was judging my work in such a state. Considering the pain and drugs to manage it the last 10 years of his life, and the new World Wide Web people were starting to hang out on where every idiot and a-hole is an expert, about the last 5 or 6 years of his life, one might cut him some slack. Regardless, during his moments of lucidness, he’d talk to anyone on the phone for 5-6 hours a time on your level, where nothing was off the table.
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kingkorg said:
Expand on that please.
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FarisElek said:
You’re really trying to bring politics into this discussion? That says plenty.
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