Phrazemaster

Recommend a Decent 12 - 16 Ch Mixer
« on: February 22, 2019, 09:18:07 PM »
Hi all,

At my church we have an aging Mackie board that someone recently decided to twist off many of the fader knobs   :o

The church decided to get a new board, and the sound guy, who is quite set in his ways and not amenable to anything he hasn't come up with, recommended we get a Behringer Xenyx X2442 UAB, here:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/X2442USB--behringer-xenyx-x2442usb-mixer-with-usb-and-effects

Being somewhat of a Behringer snob, I recommended against it due to several pointed reviews on this unit, as well as Behringer in general. I recommended a Soundcraft:

https://www.harmanaudio.com/soundcraft/Signature+12.html?cgid=soundcraft&dwvar_Signature%2012_color=Dark%20Blue-GLOBAL-Current#start=1

I'm wondering if you have any experience with either of these boards, or have another recommendation on a decent board that will last a few (like 10+) years at a church. We don't need a ton of inputs, but (to me) quality and reliability are key.

The sound guy likes the lights on the Behringer, and how it exactly fits into a special box in the sound room.  I like the high quality preamps and effects of the Soundcraft, as well as the overall excellent reputation.

Thanks,

Mike
***********************
*********************
******************
***************
************
********
*****
** * Kablooie!


scott2000

Re: Recommend a Decent 12 - 16 Ch Mixer
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2019, 03:37:51 PM »
No experience here but, I read some of the new "Behringer mixers " , not this one, may have some Midas influences??? from the takeover.... maybe not.....

......and I've read a couple issues with some new Soundcraft quality but, it was not across the board....

A&H makes nice stuff too..... I'm only experienced with a few small mixers but, out of them all, I think I liked the A&H more although the small Soundcraft I used never had any issues where the A&H had to have some faders replaced..... after a few years....

but this was many years ago.....

Maybe you can do a 30 day trial of both and take back the one that you don't fancy more???

Phrazemaster

Re: Recommend a Decent 12 - 16 Ch Mixer
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2019, 03:58:49 PM »
Thanks for your thoughts Scott.

My concern is getting a unit that will need replacing in a year or two. I know every company makes a few lemons.
***********************
*********************
******************
***************
************
********
*****
** * Kablooie!

JohnRoberts

Re: Recommend a Decent 12 - 16 Ch Mixer
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2019, 05:09:01 PM »
Thanks for your thoughts Scott.

My concern is getting a unit that will need replacing in a year or two. I know every company makes a few lemons.
I hate to miss an opportunity to piss on Behringer, ( and their behavior decades ago was less than admirable) but after becoming king of the hill they get to buy out competitors instead of ripping them off. They only wish buying Midas turns all the behringer value mixers into little midases but it reflects the difference in market strength and profitability.

Don't tell anyone I said this and if asked I will deny I said this, but the behringer value product is probably comparable to other similar mixers. If even a small fraction of their products suffered from manufacturing issues they wouldn't be king of the hill, so profitable they can buy out other classic badges.

Look at similar feature sets and make your choice based on what you need. If worried about getting a lemon maybe look at used equipment market... Too many used mixers too cheap suggests maybe a problem.

For the church market some companies even make (made?) specialized church versions (like Peavey). There are multiple forums related to church sound where users share experience.

https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/board,8.0.html

While there is probably overlap with fixed install for church sound
https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/board,33.0.html

I'm sure there are more forums and large manufacturer's probably have church sub-forums.

JR 

 
John Roberts
http://circularscience.com
Tune it, or don't play it...

Phrazemaster

Re: Recommend a Decent 12 - 16 Ch Mixer
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2019, 10:15:03 PM »
Many thanks JR for the inside scoop and excellent suggestions.

I’m pleased because the sound guy has come around a little. At least he’s looking at other brands.

Thanks,

Mike
***********************
*********************
******************
***************
************
********
*****
** * Kablooie!

Potato Cakes

Re: Recommend a Decent 12 - 16 Ch Mixer
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2019, 12:58:27 AM »
I use an Allen and Heath ZED 12 channel guy for small production stuff and the channel section and effects sound really nice. However for a comparable desk to the Behringer you posted it would cost several hundred more. Plus, the feature set on the Behringer is a bit more comprehensive than other mixers in that price range and size, so if you need flexibility it's kinda hard to beat that. The Soundcraft you posted the link to will more than likely sound a bit better compared directly to the Behringer, but unless you're using a high quality PA system with high fidelity sound reproduction, you may not notice to big of a difference. To echo JR's sediments, I'm not a fan of the business practices of a China based company, but their current offerings are pretty comparable to the rest of the market for that size of desk.

I will say this, if the effects on board are anything like the X-32 then they will sound awful, especially the reverbs. I believe if effects are something you will find yourself using then you will be very disappointed in the Behringer offerings.

I hope this helps. If not, I hope it didn't hurt...

Thanks!

Paul

Phrazemaster

Re: Recommend a Decent 12 - 16 Ch Mixer
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2019, 03:41:53 AM »
Awesome Paul, I appreciate the weigh in!

The sound guy said tonight he had changed his mind and wanted a Mackie VLZ 1642.

I know Mackie aren’t perfect but I’m breathing a sigh of relief...

Thanks guys for your support; I’ll let you know what we end up getting.

Best,

Mike
***********************
*********************
******************
***************
************
********
*****
** * Kablooie!

Whoops

Re: Recommend a Decent 12 - 16 Ch Mixer
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2019, 12:14:55 AM »
My concern is getting a unit that will need replacing in a year or two.

If you have that concern then you should not be buying an analog mixer.

From what you've told us, I would recommend the Behringer XR18 or the  Midas MR18:

https://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_x_air_xr18.htm

https://www.thomann.de/gb/midas_mr_18.htm


Phrazemaster

Re: Recommend a Decent 12 - 16 Ch Mixer
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2019, 12:54:27 AM »
If you have that concern then you should not be buying an analog mixer.

From what you've told us, I would recommend the Behringer XR18 or the  Midas MR18:

https://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_x_air_xr18.htm

https://www.thomann.de/gb/midas_mr_18.htm
A bit sarcastic isn’t it? And wrong.

Our previous analog Mackie lasted 12 years and the only reason we had  to replace it is because someone twisted off all the knobs.

We got a used Mackie. So far so good.

I do appreciate your suggestions however.
***********************
*********************
******************
***************
************
********
*****
** * Kablooie!

Whoops

Re: Recommend a Decent 12 - 16 Ch Mixer
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2019, 08:45:37 AM »
Glad you're sorted


cyrano

Re: Recommend a Decent 12 - 16 Ch Mixer
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2019, 08:00:55 PM »
Recent Mackies, Soundcrafts... are made in China too.

Remember Soundcraft is owned by Harman and Harman is owned by Samsung.

We've got several Behri's, Soundcrafts and A&H. Until recently, the Behri mixers crapped out after 5, 6 years. Not worth the repair, because usually, it was switches becoming intermittent. We've got two X32's. Very, very good for the money. No problems.

We've got an unknown number of Soundcrafts. A lot of the smaller boards, a few Delta's. Last longer than Behri ones. But that's mainly the big ones. The Delta's are nearing 20 years. Being modular, they're easy to service. The small ones don't live long enough. They usually get destroyed or stolen before they get to 5 years.

We've also got some A&H Xone mixers. These need regular repair. Like once a year. Of course, these are DJ mixers. And we've got one A&H GSR24M. Nice sound. But it arrived a bit broken. One light on the VU meter didn't work. One LED bar only worked intermittently. A few faders were warped. Transport damage, likely. Most of it got fixed by the importer. Great service. Not from A&H, though. They didn't seem to know much about the digital part. We've been pretty much on our own. Not that we've had problems with the digital part. We probably won't be buying A&H again.

Personally, I've played around with the idea of buying an X32 or X18. But I've got a RME FF400, so the X32 doesn't line up to it. And the X18 would replace it. That's why, after long consideration and a look at my wallet, I ended up with an old analog modular mixer from DDA. It was bought as "needs work" and it turned out "work" meant cleaning. I'm pretty happy with the clean sound.
Why is it people love to believe and hate to know?

Whoops

Re: Recommend a Decent 12 - 16 Ch Mixer
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2019, 08:38:06 PM »
yes,
I agree.

In the small format/economic analog mixer all them are pretty crappy, Mackie , Soundcraft or Behringer are all pretty crappy.
Worst I've seen are the Yamaha MG line of mixers, are even worst than Behringer

I also agree that the X32 is a great console, but thats not in the same league as the small format/economic analog mixer, it's a Digital console and it's produced towards a different market.

JohnRoberts

Re: Recommend a Decent 12 - 16 Ch Mixer
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2019, 08:42:24 PM »
yes,
I agree.

In the small format/economic analog mixer all them are pretty crappy, Mackie , Soundcraft or Behringer are all pretty crappy.
Worst I've seen are the Yamaha MG line of mixers, are even worst than Behringer

I also agree that the X32 is a great console, but thats not in the same league as the small format/economic analog mixer, it's a Digital console and it's produced towards a different market.
Not (just) to be contrary but most cheap (value) audio gear these days is pretty damn good. The baseline performance of solid state keeps getting better.

The customers for cheap gear are still inexperienced.

JR
John Roberts
http://circularscience.com
Tune it, or don't play it...

Whoops

Re: Recommend a Decent 12 - 16 Ch Mixer
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2019, 09:53:52 PM »
John I was saying Crappy in terms of reliability, durability and repair


totoxraymond

Re: Recommend a Decent 12 - 16 Ch Mixer
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2019, 02:44:49 PM »
I can't say i've been using every models, but Mackie are pretty reliable. Mine is now reaching 12 yo and still don't need service.

I know two more that are more than 20 yo and still working very well despite being on rental for small associations and therefore regularly abused.

As for the behringer X32, i think it's quite crappy. Doesn't stand the comparison with soundcraft Si Impact (About same price) in terms of build quality / performance / ergonomics...

In my experience, all behringers analog will die after a few years because low quality mechanical parts. (Connectors, pots, switches...)

And don't get me started on those ipad controlled XR18 and alike. All brands together, those devices should not leave rehearsal studios.

Ymmv.

Thomas


 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
14 Replies
6871 Views
Last post August 24, 2004, 03:21:56 PM
by DrFrankencopter
8 Replies
2277 Views
Last post October 20, 2004, 08:02:05 AM
by AMZ-FX
14 Replies
2400 Views
Last post July 11, 2006, 12:39:03 PM
by rafafredd
0 Replies
739 Views
Last post March 08, 2012, 05:48:51 AM
by Farringdon