Sam Harris the trouble with Facebook - Zucked

I liked listening to Sam Harris podcast 152

The trouble with Facebook.  Sam Harris speaks with Roger McNamee about his book Zucked: Waking Up to the Facebook Catastrophe 
I’m sure many folks here have heard this.  If you haven’t, it raises points. Elizabeth Warren,s. Warnings bring up.  Recommend listening and applies to Google, Amazon and other big unrestrained Tech companies.

https://samharris.org/podcast/

Roger Mc Namee is a venture capitalist and early silicon valley investor. He is pimping his new book that isn't even his first book about Facebook. : He has long been openly critical of data abuses by Facebook, Google, etc.

FWIW Facebook is now in trouble with federal government housing authority for allowing real estate ads to selectively target/or avoid minorities which is clearly illegal (duh)  .

Elizabeth Warren is not as thoughtful and attempting to position herself for a run at the brass ring in 2020 (unlikely but what would I know?). She seems to be opposed to any company that is very successful and has lots of money.

[edit-  EW has taken her campaign up another notch. Now she is proposing to make it easier to put business executives in prison. This appears to be blatant posturing to differentiate herself.

If serious (about corporate crime), we should look at fining top executives personally for corporate malfeasance instead of allowing them pay the fines from corporate revenue, effectively punishing shareholders.  /edit
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In news you won't hear on your podcast the Trump administration is finally looking at getting Fannie and Freddie out of federal conservatorship (since 2008, involving some near $200B capital injection). The last few administrations have been unwilling to disturb this apple cart, perhaps because the federal government is now skimming off all of F & F's profit from mortgage activity.  One plan is to use that revenue stream to re-capitalize F & F to exist as free standing private entities without the implicit or explicit government guarantees.

The government spent $191B bailing out F&F but since then have been paid back $297B in dividends.  https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/

It was the right thing to keep them out of free fall in 2008, but that was over a decade ago... Perhaps time to return them to the free market.

JR

Elizabeth Warren is not as thoughtful and attempting to position herself for a run at the brass ring in 2020 (unlikely but what would I know?). She seems to be opposed to any company that is very successful and has lots of money.

I’m just saying she is so far the only person in the2020 race to bring up the danger of data mining free for all that is happening .  According to the book Zucked, The idea of escaping regulation by proclaiming to be a platform rather than a media company should be challenged and regulated.  The amount of data being collected without consent is way beyond what I thought was going on.  It’s a danger to the free market and a problem of privacy that needs addressed .  But you would need to listen to the podcast to understand.  It was brought up how google maps tracks how you use the computer mouse and stores the data.  That data can be compared to previous uses from years ago and show degenerative ability that might suggest illness such as Parkinson’s.  This data currently belongs to google and can be sold to insurance companies.  Your rates go up and you don’t even know yourself you may have a medical issue.  I know this sounds like someone selling their book but it’s a point I’ve not thought of before. 

Also face book creates a filter bubble for people to live in.  It’s designed to promote drama and create dramatic groups.  (Drama creates more willingness to buy something).    These filter bubbles create internet rage which can be compared to road rage.  The actions of people become more and more supported and accepted by the filter bubble group.  The idea of deplorables and elites, commies and natzies, is encouragement by the algorithm’s filter bubble.  I witness this mode of hate for each other rather than common ground we might settle on if there could be any respect for the others opinions.  If you have any interest, listen while driving somewhere.  I found it interesting and threatening.  It seem like Europe is doing a better job of challenging this behavior by big tech.  It’s a very threatening behavior by tech that needs intervention.

I did not no the amount of money made by the government from f$f .  A $106B is a tiddy profit.  Quite an accomplishment. 

fazer said:

I did not no the amount of money made by the government from f$f .  A $106B is a tiddy profit.  Quite an accomplishment.

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It's not made by the govt. They outsourced it to Novalpina Capital LLP. That's the new super shadow bank. Largest in the world, by far. Started by ex-Goldman Sachs people and well on the way to eat Goldman Sachs for breakfast.

Funnily, Novalpina just bought NSO group, for a billion dollars. Wonder if that number is correct...

NSO group is the Israeli company that supplied the software that tracked Jamal Kashogi to Saudi Arabia. Two parts of the NSO group just lost their license to sell "arms" because they sold something the Israeli govt doesn't like. But since it's all sealed, we might never know what, or whom it was sold to.

It's a small world, isn't it?

JohnRoberts said:

Roger Mc Namee is a venture capitalist and early silicon valley investor. He is pimping his new book that isn't even his first book about Facebook. : He has long been openly critical of data abuses by Facebook, Google, etc.

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The good old ad hominem.

living sounds said:

The good old ad hominem.

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Touché... but no, they are statements of fact.  I hear him pontificate on the business channel I watch about once every couple weeks and he is the iconic silicon valley insider who is now at odds with the new kings and queens of the valley, because they stopped taking his calls. As a venture capitalist he is a big deal to some smaller companies out there, established players not so much.

I do not disagree with his complaints just that they are not new, and he is in fact pimping his second book critical of facebook. The first one apparently sold well enough to rinse and repeat. I don't need to read a book to be unhappy with Facebook. They are up to their ears in the weaponization of social media, and can't get away with old tired claims of innocence and not take at least some responsibility for truly horrible stuff happening on their site.  The government will go after them for civil rights violations (targeted real estate ads), but there may need to be more legislation (or undoing some old protective legislation) to hold them fully responsible.

I see an uptick in advertising there no doubt to help pay for the increased cost of moderation to keep the crazies down to a low rumble, but they have more work to do.

JR

PS: Since I am inclined to pontificate too, I would be damning myself to damn him... Just observing his complaints aren't news to anyone paying attention.

fazer said:

Elizabeth Warren is not as thoughtful and attempting to position herself for a run at the brass ring in 2020 (unlikely but what would I know?). She seems to be opposed to any company that is very successful and has lots of money.

I’m just saying she is so far the only person in the2020 race to bring up the danger of data mining free for all that is happening .  According to the book Zucked, The idea of escaping regulation by proclaiming to be a platform rather than a media company should be challenged and regulated.  The amount of data being collected without consent is way beyond what I thought was going on.  It’s a danger to the free market and a problem of privacy that needs addressed .  But you would need to listen to the podcast to understand.  It was brought up how google maps tracks how you use the computer mouse and stores the data.  That data can be compared to previous uses from years ago and show degenerative ability that might suggest illness such as Parkinson’s.  This data currently belongs to google and can be sold to insurance companies.  Your rates go up and you don’t even know yourself you may have a medical issue.  I know this sounds like someone selling their book but it’s a point I’ve not thought of before. 

Also face book creates a filter bubble for people to live in.  It’s designed to promote drama and create dramatic groups.  (Drama creates more willingness to buy something).    These filter bubbles create internet rage which can be compared to road rage.  The actions of people become more and more supported and accepted by the filter bubble group.  The idea of deplorables and elites, commies and natzies, is encouragement by the algorithm’s filter bubble.  I witness this mode of hate for each other rather than common ground we might settle on if there could be any respect for the others opinions.  If you have any interest, listen while driving somewhere.  I found it interesting and threatening.  It seem like Europe is doing a better job of challenging this behavior by big tech.  It’s a very threatening behavior by tech that needs intervention.

I did not no the amount of money made by the government from f$f .  A $106B is a tiddy profit.  Quite an accomplishment.

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Not a great return for 10 years duration, but better than the government makes on many "investments".. cough (like solyndra et al costing taxpayers some $2B+).

Yes big technology companies need to be properly recognized and regulated for what they are/do. It is interesting to see how each has different problems. Only Apple seems relatively clean so far, but they are surely in the cross hairs because of their size/success making them a target also.  Big is not automatically bad but creates the opportunity to do bad.

JR

Listening to it now, thanks Fazer!

they stopped taking his calls

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So far (25min in) this appears to be because he's not telling them what they want to hear about their sacred product.

boji said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/01/technology/india-elections-facebook.html

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yup saw similar article in WSJ...  I expect more not less of this coming... but this will cost Facebook lots of money. Zuckerberg is now calling for more government regulation, that he can afford to pay for (pass along to advertisers), and will increase the moat around his business against new smaller competitors.

The media seems uninterested in all the evidence of Russian interference with 2016 election... IMO a better thing to pursue right now than still trying to pin the tail on President Trump. 2020 is right around the corner, we need to work on improving our social media integrity safeguards for next election right now.

JR

we need to work on improving our social media integrity safeguards for next election right now.

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Agreed. but I think the U.S. war machine has finally got the memo. Not sure if it was posted it here, but there's another Sam Harris podcast that sheds light on the depth of russian election meddling.  I don't understand why the average citizen wants to downplay the impact of Russian hacking/trolling, as well as ignore the fact that these dangerous social media platforms were the brainchildren of Silicon Valley, not Zelenograd.

https://samharris.org/podcasts/145-information-war/

I don't understand why the average citizen wants to downplay the impact of Russian hacking/trolling, as well as ignore the fact that these dangerous social media platforms were the brainchildren of Silicon Valley, not Zelenograd.

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Agreed.  On a world level,  This seem so much more economical for governents to run divisive disinformation .  And how do you ever put the geni back in the bottle.  USA must be running this to persuade people in other country’s.    What goes around comes around.

boji said:

Agreed. but I think the U.S. war machine has finally got the memo. Not sure if it was posted it here, but there's another Sam Harris podcast that sheds light on the depth of russian election meddling.  I don't understand why the average citizen wants to downplay the impact of Russian hacking/trolling, as well as ignore the fact that these dangerous social media platforms were the brainchildren of Silicon Valley, not Zelenograd.

https://samharris.org/podcasts/145-information-war/

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Indeed cyber warfare is real and actively pursued by major world powers.

wrt upcoming Indian election the Pakistan military accounts were among those hundreds (thousands?) deleted by Facebook. Social media just makes disinformation/propaganda easier and more pervasive.

JR

What we saw here initially in Ireland was politicians rolling out the red carpet for facebook ,and litterally offering up hundreds of millions peoples data on a plate to them , in previous years various government departments rushed in to get facebook and twitter badges ,like the case of the public health service , FB and T fast became an total imbarressment when pics of people half dead  on trolleys in hospital corridors and thousands of complaints rolled in . Civil servants, politicians  and their media advisers  were cock sure they could make it work for them ,major back fire there .

Public awareness of what FB is actually upto with regards our privacy is all over the place now , and theres growing resentment .Meanwhile the government has seen fit to setup an agency which seeks  to educate people about 'fake news' , this has amounted to a look out for 'unfavourable  news' and a way of getting stuff taken down if it doesnt suit their agenda .

The cosy situation the government here have gotten themselves into here with FB is going to haunt them , and most likely cost the tax payer a lot of money in the process .

In the end who wins? polarised and extremist opinions thats who grab the headlines ,and even Facebook himself is trying to plead with Governments to legislate to try and control the monster he's created . Zucherburg did appear in person last week before a parlimentary meeting in Dublin .

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/zuckerberg-pledges-to-work-with-governments-to-regulate-social-media-914950.html

And now look who Z'burgs new chief adviser is , Nick Clegg

One of the government ministers who met FB ,previously suggested the government should simply hand over all our social security data (such as name and age)to Fb for the purposes ofverification  child protection and content moderation , it really just goes to show politicians will go to almost any lenghts to find favour with Mr Zburg.

Its high time the EU stepped in stopped Zburg's 4th Reich by proxy .

The item below is old news ,but does show how one minister seems to have abused power in relation to unfavourable social media content.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/blogger-considers-legal-action-over-garda-caution-at-airport-1.3145958

Fb is the biggest propaganda spin machine on the planet, it can win or loose you an election ,no wonder politicians cant wait to kiss his ring for him .

Just listened to the whole interview , actually confirms my worst suspicions and more , just very glad I chose never to have a mobile phone or a FB account ,and my mistrust of my own governments biometric identity cards isnt misplaced at all , despite 3.2 million sheep just accepting them . We have local and European elections coming up soon , I'll have a few tough questions for those people when they arrive at my front door looking for votes , thats for fkn sure.