scott2000

Notre Dame Cathedral gone??
« on: April 15, 2019, 02:11:47 PM »
« Last Edit: April 15, 2019, 02:28:13 PM by scott2000 »


pucho812

Re: Notre Dame Cathedral gone??
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2019, 02:36:25 PM »
 :(
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

weiss

Re: Notre Dame Cathedral gone??
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2019, 03:10:44 PM »
heartbreaking  :'(

sahib

Re: Notre Dame Cathedral gone??
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2019, 03:13:13 PM »
We feel the same.

As I typed 'heart breaking' I saw your post.




pucho812

Re: Notre Dame Cathedral gone??
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2019, 04:56:56 PM »
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

boji

Re: Notre Dame Cathedral gone??
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2019, 05:44:52 PM »
Symbolic imagery is...to put it mildly, evoking...

scott2000

Re: Notre Dame Cathedral gone??
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2019, 05:48:31 PM »

Youtube's AI algo dorked it.... .....

JohnRoberts

Re: Notre Dame Cathedral gone??
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2019, 07:15:10 PM »
It appears that renovation just went over budget. Glad to hear no deaths reported (yet).

A terrible loss, I guess they didn't have sprinklers inside an 8 century old wood building.

JR
John Roberts
http://circularscience.com
Tune it, or don't play it...

john12ax7

Re: Notre Dame Cathedral gone??
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2019, 08:30:09 PM »
Terrible news.

Visiting there was an incredible experience.

Re: Notre Dame Cathedral gone??
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2019, 10:06:55 PM »
A terrible loss, I guess they didn't have sprinklers inside an 8 century old wood building.

JR

Hello JR and all

This wood building was actually called "the forest" equivalent to about 20 hectares of Oak forest (which is about 1/5 km square...)
When fire start you soon need way more than a sprinkler... according to actual statement, no worker where in the place where the fire start.

Some tree used already have two or 3 hundred years at that time which mean more than a millennium from now...

Some pictures of the frame at the bottom of this link
http://www.notredamedeparis.fr/la-cathedrale/architecture/la-charpente/

Best
Zam

edit: at french TV they talk quickly about the roof covering, but later it was a big silence about it.... estimation is about 200tones of lead !!!
When I first see the fume (less than an hour after the beginning) I feel a problem regarding color, but understand later when they quickly talk about lead cover... wonder how toxic is that amount of lead burning for hours at 800+°C
« Last Edit: April 15, 2019, 10:31:16 PM by zamproject »


pucho812

Re: Notre Dame Cathedral gone??
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2019, 10:55:51 PM »
The Notre Dame Cathedral's altar and crucifix survived the fire.

You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

JohnRoberts

Re: Notre Dame Cathedral gone??
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2019, 11:23:25 PM »
Hello JR and all

This wood building was actually called "the forest" equivalent to about 20 hectares of Oak forest (which is about 1/5 km square...)
Yes "forest" nick name was mentioned (and explained) in early news reports.
Quote

When fire start you soon need way more than a sprinkler... according to actual statement, no worker where in the place where the fire start.
Sorry it is so easy to second guess after the fact... Of course concept is to suppress fire before it gets out of control.
Quote
Some tree used already have two or 3 hundred years at that time which mean more than a millennium from now...

Some pictures of the frame at the bottom of this link
http://www.notredamedeparis.fr/la-cathedrale/architecture/la-charpente/

Best
Zam

edit: at french TV they talk quickly about the roof covering, but later it was a big silence about it.... estimation is about 200tones of lead !!!
When I first see the fume (less than an hour after the beginning) I feel a problem regarding color, but understand later when they quickly talk about lead cover... wonder how toxic is that amount of lead burning for hours at 800+°C
Just add lead pollution to the list of bad consequences... We put lead in gasoline until a few decades ago but worse for children. Lead can be removed from humans after the fact (chelation) but better to not ingest it .

Some iconic statues were removed for the renovation and survived... Cathedral fire is surely a tragic loss for France and the world.

JR
John Roberts
http://circularscience.com
Tune it, or don't play it...

KrIVIUM2323

Re: Notre Dame Cathedral gone??
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2019, 01:35:18 PM »
Hi,
Sprinklers should had been used in the roof.  My father ( retired architect) and i had the same reaction 'where were the sprinklers?'
It probably wouldn't have save the roof but gave firemen some more time to react.
It is ironic, when you build something new dedicated to receive people in France it is a total mess about norms and obligation ( and i can tell as i'm this situation right now) regarding security. This place was the most visited in EU and nothing about it regarding fire security?

Anyway many treasure have been saved which is nice.  The 'Grand orgue' being one of them ( one of the nicest and biggest one you could find)!
I've just heard it is dirty but it didn't been flooded! Some of the stained glass survived too! Some of the bells been saved too.
Talk about a miracle.

This is tragic yes, but it should be remembered that Notre Dame was abandonned for maybe 2 centurys until Victor Hugo put it into light again and made it something truly special in our hearts. And the place seen other issues during his history ( not as severe though).
It'll be reconstructed, be sure. It'll take time but in 30 years it'll be up again. 
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 01:48:03 PM by KrIVIUM2323 »

abbey road d enfer

Re: Notre Dame Cathedral gone??
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2019, 02:00:38 PM »
This place was the most visited in EU and nothing about it regarding fire security?
IMO it's a consequence of the half-assed concept of the 1905 law that proclaims separation between the Church and the State, but leaves the burden of maintaining churches upon the State, when nobody in the State has the competence to do so. The French Architects are only concerned with the historic and esthetic aspects of the task, and not interested in things as pedestrian as maintenance.
If the French Catholic Church (a Vatican's subsidiary) was in charge, I bet they would have spent the necessary money to protect one of their biggest source of revenue.
I'm not pleased at the idea that I'll have to pay (indirectly but nonetheless effectively) for this lack of foresight.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
Star ground is for electricians.

KrIVIUM2323

Re: Notre Dame Cathedral gone??
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2019, 08:00:31 AM »
Hi Abbey road,
Yes you may be right, i don't know maybe the Catholic Church may have injected money but i doubt it. But yes the fact that State have to assume build which are not used by everybody is strange. But it came from a point of view that this build are collective and cultural heritage.

We have a big issue regarding historical build in France: there is so much place which should be saved, and the fact that some of them being private doesn't help too ( the charge is huge for individuals, even if they are not poor).

Anyway, about Notre Dame this isn't the first time a cathedral is ruined: Reims, Chartres, etc,... many have been rebuild.
In a way it could make the building safer for visitors at the lost of historical technics...


 

Re: Notre Dame Cathedral gone??
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2019, 08:48:58 AM »
It does seem like Macron is trying to  seize the oppertunity to build a little civic pride , what big news is being slipped through the back door meanwhile though?




KrIVIUM2323

Re: Notre Dame Cathedral gone??
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2019, 09:39:56 AM »
Something related to the 'Gilets Jaunes' riots. He should have gave answer from the citizen consultation when the drama happened... delaying his answer to this!  ::) ;D

That said it'll fun to follow as in one day almost 1 000 000 000 € was raised from private funds and 'big companys' donations... meanwhile for 'poor' working people there is no money that could be found. Go figure... 
:-X  :o  ;D

JohnRoberts

Re: Notre Dame Cathedral gone??
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2019, 10:45:36 AM »
Rebuilding Notre dame in 5 years seems a little optimistic but it is a positive more unifying message than the yellow vest crowd's divisiveness.

Besides an iconic catholic church, Notre Dame is a historic site, before the catholic church it was a Roman temple (omni Gallia est divisus tres partes.... pardon my rusty latin).

 JR
John Roberts
http://circularscience.com
Tune it, or don't play it...

KrIVIUM2323

Re: Notre Dame Cathedral gone??
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2019, 11:51:05 AM »
John, your rusty latin is better than mine!  ;D
Most Church and (or) historic site are older than the rise of Catholic religion in EU.
This is recycling. Even gods were recycled between antic Greece and Romans for instance ( it was one of the great force of Romanian by the way, rather than banning things from annexed cultures they just reused and integrate them at the time. One of the reason this civilization had a so long domination before monotheism appeared).

DaveP

Re: Notre Dame Cathedral gone??
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2019, 04:51:29 PM »
Joni Mitchell: "You don't know what you got 'til it's gone".

Since I moved to beautiful France, we have had Charlie Hebdo, Bataclan, Gilet jaune and now this tragedy!

Notre Dame was a blow to the entire world,  but some big guns have moved up to the plate and it will do them no harm at all.

I hope that this latest catastrophe will have the effect of bringing the country back together again as the rebuilding gets going.

DaveP
Soundcloud: Delayed Action.


 

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