ruffrecords

Open Source FX
« on: May 16, 2019, 06:04:11 PM »
Does anyone know of any open source FX hardware and software? I am thinking of something that could do the sort of basic FX built into a typical off the shelf mixer.

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'


iampoor1

Re: Open Source FX
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2019, 06:08:27 PM »
Spincad designer for the spin fv1. Graphical drag and drop tool for the fv1 chipset.

ruffrecords

Re: Open Source FX
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2019, 06:51:34 PM »
Spincad designer for the spin fv1. Graphical drag and drop tool for the fv1 chipset.

Excellent. That looks like it might be just what I am looking for.

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

iampoor1

Re: Open Source FX
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2019, 07:02:38 PM »
Excellent. That looks like it might be just what I am looking for.

Cheers

Ian

It works pretty well. Tons of guitar pedals use this setup. The fv-1 chip is pretty lowfi by today's standards (almost 15 years old I think) but it works pretty well. You can also use analog devices sigma studio with the freedom platform, but that's another step up in terms of complexity.

squarewave

Re: Open Source FX
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2019, 07:18:54 PM »
Hopefully you're not considering putting it into one of your mixers. That would be a mistake IMO. Hardware FX modules are usually crap compared to what a computer can do. And the controls would be completely different. Do you really want some mediocre digital thing with wonky rotary encoders in the middle of your delicately handcrafted tube mixer? What are AUX sends for then? It's also something that will quickly become dated whereas a tube mixer will never be.

ruffrecords

Re: Open Source FX
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2019, 03:46:58 AM »
Hopefully you're not considering putting it into one of your mixers. That would be a mistake IMO. Hardware FX modules are usually crap compared to what a computer can do. And the controls would be completely different. Do you really want some mediocre digital thing with wonky rotary encoders in the middle of your delicately handcrafted tube mixer? What are AUX sends for then? It's also something that will quickly become dated whereas a tube mixer will never be.

You are right of course. I have been surveying the functions and features offered by typical 8 channel mixers and this features often. As I build custom mixers I get asked for all sorts of strange things so I just wondered how easy/diffcult it would be to do if asked. But before I do anything like that I really must get round to doing  the tube compressor for the Mark 3.

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

squarewave

Re: Open Source FX
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2019, 09:37:40 AM »
That would be like finding a Pioneer AM/FM car stereo in a 59 Porsche 356.

JohnRoberts

Re: Open Source FX
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2019, 09:47:34 AM »
You are right of course. I have been surveying the functions and features offered by typical 8 channel mixers and this features often. As I build custom mixers I get asked for all sorts of strange things so I just wondered how easy/diffcult it would be to do if asked. But before I do anything like that I really must get round to doing  the tube compressor for the Mark 3.

Cheers

Ian
Back last century managing Peavey's mixer design group, I was motivated to replace spring reverbs with solid state, for ease of design and eventually cost, but not immediately. The early digital efx were pretty poor sound quality, but as long as you are doing a reverb might as well do multi-efx. I've shared before but in one early design, I used the accumulator (?) overflow flag, to limit the input with a simple JFET shunt, based on reality, because different reverb algorithms had remarkably different head room characteristics.

I agree , don't put an inferior POS circuit block  inside an otherwise pristine signal path. An audio chain is only as strong as the weakest link, don't be the weak link. I wouldn't try to compete with the value econo-boxes.

JR 
Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

ruffrecords

Re: Open Source FX
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2019, 01:06:25 PM »
What evidence is there that built in FX need be worse than those available in a PC? After all ,a dedicated DSP should be able to equal any FX processing a general purpose device like a PC can do, especially considering all the overheads the OS imposes upon it.

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

Rocinante

Re: Open Source FX
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2019, 03:34:21 PM »
I don't know. Its pretty subjective i suppose but the Belton Accutronics effects blocks, especially their reverb, are pretty damn good although analog. I have no idea what vocals would sound like but for guitars I was really impressed. They come in a 10 pin single line block and have example circuits for the user to experiment with. Worth looking at anyways. I believe the make a delay and a multi-effects block as well.
Arduino and Teensy are making effects extension modules but I believe the AD conversion isn't capable of 24/96k. Their dacs are 24/192k. I'm hoping future implementation will make one of these guys capable of higher AD conversion.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 03:38:56 PM by Rocinante »
If there's a harder way to do this, I haven't found it yet.


Michael Tibes

Re: Open Source FX
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2019, 10:40:34 AM »
What evidence is there that built in FX need be worse than those available in a PC?

In my opnion: none. A sh*tty fx box will be inferior to a great plugin, but how long did it take until there were even usable plugin reverbs (not to mention great ones)... In my opinion plugins have come a long way and a lot of great stuff has come out in the last five years. But a  480 is still sounding great and now finaly got decently modeled by UAD about half a year ago. I feel like there are a lot of decent rack units out there from companies with decades of experience, why does it need to be self-developed and built in? Maybe just leave space for a 19" device in the mixer case, so whatever fits the bill can be 'built in'?

Michael

abbey road d enfer

Re: Open Source FX
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2019, 01:51:56 PM »
Does anyone know of any open source FX hardware and software? I am thinking of something that could do the sort of basic FX built into a typical off the shelf mixer.

Cheers

Ian
If you're not too concerned about giving money to Ulrich von B.
http://www.coolaudio.com/docs/V1000_DATASHEET.pdf
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
Star ground is for electricians.

squarewave

Re: Open Source FX
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2019, 02:34:56 PM »
Computer based algorithms can be much more sophisticated than an outboard unit. Do I have "evidence" like statistically significant AB listening tests? No. But consider that once tracks are in the computer, it can process a track as slowly as necessary which means the resolution and depth of something like reverb can be much greater.

Also, consider the workflow. Ultimately all analog front end chains are going into analog-to-digital converters and recorded to a computer. Once you transition from the analog realm to the digital realm, there's probably no going back because you have a 5ms latency barrier. Maybe if all of the tracks go through the same barrier such as to mix down on a console so that you can "play" the console like it's an instrument. But I'm guessing that once it's in the DAW, for most folks, that's it. Now you can play with reverb and plugins until your blue in the face. At no time is there a need for reverb or effects in the analog realm. The except to the rule might be for monitoring so that the performer can hear reverb while they're singing / playing. But that would not end up in the recording.

Rocinante

Re: Open Source FX
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2019, 06:24:54 PM »
I play with the console as an instrument when mixing down. Even though I use automation via 8 fader daw controllers.
It's how I started when I interned then worked at a facility with a Trident 80 series. Later on I switched to ITB with some hardware.
Now I use a console and use the truly outstanding tools that the PC offers via plug ins. I get the best of both worlds.
One if the top reasons I use a PC is the effects plug ins of which I have a lot of.
I like my compressors as hardware but use both. Same for EQ. But I sold my Lexicons after obtaining Waves verbs, Valhalla, or the Lexicon plugs, or the hundreds of other great verbs out there.
I didn't need to A B them. They sounded great. I still have a TC Electronic M-one and Quadraverb for the artist mix so they can have zero latency effects while recording but they very rarely get put in the mix in the end. 
There is no real competition when it comes to plug ins verse those that can be affordably had or made in the analog world. The digital side is just too complex; ever open up a Lexicon or even Alesis?  One could have an eight channel ADDA converter as apart of or attached to the console which would be the ultimate set up and a huge DIY project but that seems like a lot of work.
If there's a harder way to do this, I haven't found it yet.

Rocinante

Re: Open Source FX
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2019, 06:30:19 PM »
If there's a harder way to do this, I haven't found it yet.

squarewave

Re: Open Source FX
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2019, 07:32:06 PM »
Now I use a console and use the truly outstanding tools that the PC offers via plug ins. I get the best of both worlds.
One if the top reasons I use a PC is the effects plug ins of which I have a lot of.
I like my compressors as hardware but use both. Same for EQ.
How exactly do you use the console and PC together? Do you use a PC plugin on a console AUX? You do realize that round trip conversion is like a 2000 degree phase shift? Or do you apply plugins before sending everything out to the console, mix and then everything back through the converters?

Re: Open Source FX
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2019, 10:55:52 PM »
This would have been great and built just for us
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/689850781/flexfxtm-programmable-digital-audio-effects-platfo

He's worked on some similar projects since and I think he did another Kickstarter

ruffrecords

Re: Open Source FX
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2019, 04:00:38 AM »
Computer based algorithms can be much more sophisticated than an outboard unit. Do I have "evidence" like statistically significant AB listening tests? No. But consider that once tracks are in the computer, it can process a track as slowly as necessary which means the resolution and depth of something like reverb can be much greater.
Which to me is a workflow nightmare. I hate setting up an effect on the computer, waiting while it processes a track, listening to it,  finding it is not quite right. tweaking a parameter in the hope it will fix it and repeat To my mind FX have to be real time else they are useless. And for real time a DSP is at least as good as a general purpose PC.

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

Rocinante

Re: Open Source FX
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2019, 11:58:08 AM »
How exactly do you use the console and PC together? Do you use a PC plugin on a console AUX? You do realize that round trip conversion is like a 2000 degree phase shift? Or do you apply plugins before sending everything out to the console, mix and then everything back through the converters?
Oh it's before during editing.  All tracks are assigned to a bus in the daw. The buses run through the console channels. 24 channels leave the PC/ADDA > patchbay > console channels and aux/fx > patchbay > PC/ADDA. A seperate high end AD converter gets two channels for the mix.
Plug ins are set before mixdown either on each track or the DAW bus.
Hardware comes in typically on the way back patchbay > PC/ADDA.
 I set my automation and my go to plug ins then when mixing down I ride the faders to taste using the automation as my third or forth hand or as if there was someone else helping.
If there's a harder way to do this, I haven't found it yet.

Re: Open Source FX
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2019, 08:25:42 AM »
This might interest you
https://ohdsp.weebly.com/


 

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