kambo

conspiracy theories
« on: June 10, 2019, 01:46:30 AM »
OMG, it was a very odd moment,
this dude at friends BBQ, was totally believing no human being ever went to space!
there is no space station, its all made up to believe us on something to control us
due the high level of radiation
astronauts would be needed 3 feet thick lead shields  around them to survive!

it was pretty weird moment! couple of guys tried to understand his mid set, but it was better
idea to " HEEEEEYYYYY LOOOOOK WHOO IS HEEEREEEEE " change the subject ,
worked just fine  ;D


ruffrecords

Re: conspiracy theories
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2019, 03:50:22 AM »
What does the guy do for a living. Will anyone employ him?

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

cyrano

Re: conspiracy theories
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2019, 06:16:27 AM »
If believing in weird things would hinder employment, we'd see a lot more unemployed, I'm afraid.

I've known a sales person who believed golf was a conspiracy...

Despite his beliefs, when that company was taken over and the new overlords started investing heavily, he took golf courses. And, lo and behold, playing golf with the top brass made him a CEO. Unfortunately, the company went under six months later. Much to the amusement of the former CEO, who'd already started a new company.
Why is it people love to believe and hate to know?

Re: conspiracy theories
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2019, 06:39:54 AM »
The more outlandish theorists provide great cover for all manner of bad stuff by muddying the waters .
Of course radiation is a major problem in space , and it took work to find ways of sheilding people from it effectively ,tons of lead isnt the answer .

Brown nosing  the company directors out on the golf course obviously does work ,in the short term at least , brings to mind 'Curb your enthusiasm ' and the day out on the golf course , Larry kills a prize bird and gets kicked out of the club ;D

 

ruffrecords

Re: conspiracy theories
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2019, 07:06:23 AM »
If believing in weird things would hinder employment, we'd see a lot more unemployed, I'm afraid.

I agree. Believing in them is one thing but openly voicing them in public is another. If he has told friends at a Barbie he will probably have told work colleagues too. Would you trust anyone who voiced such a view?

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

Re: conspiracy theories
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2019, 08:46:43 AM »
You are missing the biggest conspiracy of all time! that is that the  earth is flat  :o

leitmo

Re: conspiracy theories
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2019, 09:36:08 AM »
You are missing the biggest conspiracy of all time! that is that the  earth is flat  :o

Did you watch Netflix documentary? Hilarious!
Quote: "I can see Seattle from here so it must be flat"  ;D

benb

Re: conspiracy theories
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2019, 09:45:45 AM »
I thought this was going to be about the New York Times story about a week ago, about Navy pilots seeing flying objects making impossible maneuvers.

I read a comment in a Twitter reply chain on this "Yeah, the government has been putting out these stories for the last two years, they're getting the public used to it so when they officially announce the existence of space aliens the public won't be shocked and panic."

JohnRoberts

Re: conspiracy theories
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2019, 10:20:19 AM »
Some conspiracy theories are dumber than others (just like people). I don't think government is smart (competent) enough to successfully pull off a decades long fraud like that.

It is bad enough to watch government conspire in plain sight to manipulate the sheeple.

JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

Ricardus

Re: conspiracy theories
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2019, 11:06:17 AM »
Some conspiracy theories are dumber than others (just like people). I don't think government is smart (competent) enough to successfully pull off a decades long fraud like that.

It is bad enough to watch government conspire in plain sight to manipulate the sheeple.

JR

The govt successfully keeps secrets for decades all the time. If they didn't we'd know everything the CIA and NSA knows.

That whole belief you voiced is seriously flawed reasoning. It's often repeated without question, and that's why it's so pervasive.

Not that I'm arguing FOR area 51 aliens in storage, but just with the logic.
Audio mastering for hire..


kambo

Re: conspiracy theories
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2019, 11:38:10 AM »
Did you watch Netflix documentary? Hilarious!
Quote: "I can see Seattle from here so it must be flat"  ;D

ohh that one was hilarious :)))

kambo

Re: conspiracy theories
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2019, 11:45:26 AM »
What does the guy do for a living. Will anyone employ him?

Cheers

Ian

yup, has a very top paid work too!




pucho812

Re: conspiracy theories
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2019, 01:26:44 PM »
OMG, it was a very odd moment,
this dude at friends BBQ, was totally believing no human being ever went to space!
there is no space station, its all made up to believe us on something to control us
due the high level of radiation
astronauts would be needed 3 feet thick lead shields  around them to survive!

it was pretty weird moment! couple of guys tried to understand his mid set, but it was better
idea to " HEEEEEYYYYY LOOOOOK WHOO IS HEEEREEEEE " change the subject ,
worked just fine  ;D

It's interesting. I have seem many a person wear the tin foil hat and claim how we never went into space or went to the moon. It's a fascination subject to observe.  Despite all the evidence and everything they still believe we have never been there.   I am willing to entertain them and listen because  it's a good exercise plus it's also neat to see how they string the evidence together with things like the Van Alden belt and such.

Here is a factoid that is useless but funny. Neil Armstrong, after his moon trip, used to be at parties and tell really bad jokes about being on the moon. When no one would laugh he would say "I guess you had to be there".  That is genius if you ask me.
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

ruffrecords

Re: conspiracy theories
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2019, 02:14:16 PM »
yup, has a very top paid work too!

Maybe he was just winding you all up?

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

kambo

Re: conspiracy theories
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2019, 02:19:59 PM »
Maybe he was just winding you all up?

Cheers

Ian

oh no... he was dead serious!
he is seriously believing in many conspiracy theories, i heard!

edit: he is not an engineer or anything like that... i think studied something social!



JohnRoberts

Re: conspiracy theories
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2019, 02:29:38 PM »
The govt successfully keeps secrets for decades all the time. If they didn't we'd know everything the CIA and NSA knows.
I expect there is a difference between keeping a state secret confidential and pulling off a massive fraud like faking space travel, and keeping that secret from the public for decades.
Quote
That whole belief you voiced is seriously flawed reasoning. It's often repeated without question, and that's why it's so pervasive.
You do not say why my logic is flawed, only that it is popular, which doesn't make it wrong?   Do you believe government is successful at promulgating frauds and keeping them secret for decades?
Quote
Not that I'm arguing FOR area 51 aliens in storage, but just with the logic.
I stand by my opinion that government is too incompetent to pull off a massive elaborate fraud on that scale "and" keep it secret.

Opinions vary and often do. That is pretty much the theme of this thread.

JR

PS: Back in the 60s I held a secret clearance while working on a Navy project at MIT Instrumentation lab.
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

kambo

Re: conspiracy theories
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2019, 04:39:45 PM »
government is too incompetent to pull off a massive elaborate fraud  on that scale "and" keep it secret.

+1

dmp

Re: conspiracy theories
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2019, 10:35:30 AM »
There is a concept in behavioral psychology that people who are very intelligent and competent in one field will extrapolate their competence to other fields. Thus, someone that is employed and successful in one area might believe the wildest conspiracies in other fields, but not have nearly the background to justify the belief.

ruffrecords

Re: conspiracy theories
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2019, 10:54:24 AM »
There is a concept in behavioral psychology that people who are very intelligent and competent in one field will extrapolate their competence to other fields. Thus, someone that is employed and successful in one area might believe the wildest conspiracies in other fields, but not have nearly the background to justify the belief.

I think this is quite common. All people have some form of expertise but are expected to decide on things well outside their competence. It's a fact of life Take AGW for one. There are very few people  (if any) in the world able to comprehend the all encompassing physics that defines how the climate varies over long periods of time. It does not stop lots of people claiming we need to stop burning fossil fuels.  Equally, few, if any, Brits understand enough about the way the EU operated to be able to decide whether to vote for or against Brexit. Doesn't stop them voting though.

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

dmp

Re: conspiracy theories
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2019, 12:03:54 PM »
I think this is quite common. All people have some form of expertise but are expected to decide on things well outside their competence. It's a fact of life Take AGW for one. There are very few people  (if any) in the world able to comprehend the all encompassing physics that defines how the climate varies over long periods of time. It does not stop lots of people claiming we need to stop burning fossil fuels. 

That is a good example but you have it reversed. People with expertise outside thermodynamics / climate science feel capable of believing that GHG driven climate change is a conspiracy. Even though a majority of the  experts disagree with the conspiracy theory. (both experts in climate science and those with a background sufficient to understand the 'all encompassing physics'). My background and field of work is energy systems and simulation and I had a lot of course work in grad school on thermodynamics, etc... and the evidence that GHGs provide a forcing effect on climate is conclusive, IMO. Additionally I personally see a consensus opinion among experts on this.

Another bias that contributes to this type of thing is called the confirmation bias. Once you have a 'side' then you continue to see / seek out the facts that support your side. This is easy to do in the age of the internet where your browser goes down a rabbit hole of facts supporting, for instance, climate change denial.
But when you actually study / work in a field, you are confronted with a more broad range of opinions / facts and have more trouble descending into a isolated bubble.

Do flat earthers know they're wrong? no. (or maybe some do and are just trolls, I don't know)

Understanding the limits of your own expertise is one of the most difficult intelligence tasks there is.
Daniel Kahneman had a funny illustration of this called the 'Tvorsky' test, referring to a very intelligent colleague of his (Amos Tvorsky). The test was how quickly a person realized Tvorsky was more intelligent than they were.  The quicker they realized this, the more intelligent they were. 

On the flip side, there is something called an 'appeal to authority' bias used to discredit minority beliefs because a 'expert' disagrees with it. Minority views are extremely important in science and there are many examples in history when a fringe /anti-establishment view turned out to be correct. 

Predicting the future of any chaotic system is impossible and no expert can conclusively say what the climate will be like over the next few decades - but IMO arguing that that fact discredits climate science is foolish. A lot of conspiracy beliefs are argued by getting lost in the details and complexities

Finally, I would urge you to check out the Factfulness by Hans Rosling. It goes over many important issues confronting humanity including some of the most challenging, like population growth. It lays out a fact based world view that is optimistic for the future.

If people are truly interested in understanding the world, we should spend less time arguing for our side, and more time learning the facts - and base our views on those facts.



 

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