kambo

re sampling through speakers
« on: June 10, 2019, 05:31:31 PM »
i sometimes play a sample through my studio monitor (on one ch mono)  and record it with a ribbon mike,
sounds really good! i should do it more often :)

so, i was thinking going to a big studio,  with big nice  live room,
replay my samples there and record with  multiple mic positions !
close, front (over head like) , room, far, hall, balcony, etc etc...

would i get nice results from room and far mics... or waste of time/money!
also, should i play from mono speaker or stereo pair...
my samples are stereo, but mono compatible...
i definitely wanna capture the room and hall sounds...  no experience on that from speakers!

any advice !



pucho812

Re: re sampling through speakers
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2019, 05:40:04 PM »
much easier to get altiverb ;) but that works too.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2019, 06:57:59 PM by pucho812 »
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

kambo

Re: re sampling through speakers
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2019, 06:02:49 PM »
hmmm, is there any setup i can hear mics from far top corners from altiverb ?
or room sound recorded in same massive live room ?
i have altiverb but dont seem to find anything like this... may be looking at wrong presets!


pucho812

Re: re sampling through speakers
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2019, 06:59:31 PM »
well the one thing altiverb does well, especially in it's current version is sound like the rooms they are in.  While there is limited functionality in that the mics are fixed position and distance, it does sound like it should at the various studio rooms. About the only plug in I know where you can really move the mics around is the UAD ocean way plug in.
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

kambo

Re: re sampling through speakers
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2019, 07:44:35 PM »
About the only plug in I know where you can really move the mics around is the UAD ocean way plug in.

damn,  i have no UAD gear, i cant even demo it...

MountCyanide

Re: re sampling through speakers
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2019, 10:27:26 PM »
I’d say just go into neat and interesting non-studio spaces and grab some cool unique sounds.

kambo

Re: re sampling through speakers
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2019, 10:42:17 PM »
I’d say just go into neat and interesting non-studio spaces and grab some cool unique sounds.

that i will do for sure...

i digged some presets on eastwest EW-Spaces-II
not so adjustable, but they placed the mic where you would place anyway...
same room , over head, room, balcony, etc setups!
c if it would do the trick...

MountCyanide

Re: re sampling through speakers
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2019, 04:37:35 AM »
Right on.
Capture the spaces around you and your recordings will record a time capsule of this moment of your life.
Yeah that sounds sentimental, but it's art and it should be.
I've done it at every place I've set up shop. With the exception of one.  And this one is a big regret.
I spent a year in the old Beastie Boys studio with the basketball court and parquet floors. And yep, I didn't record the reverb in that room. Dumba$$!

JohnRoberts

Re: re sampling through speakers
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2019, 09:15:24 AM »
Using stereo pair with Mid-Side matrix you can play with ambiance or room sound, separately from direct sound.

JR
Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

kambo

Re: re sampling through speakers
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2019, 12:00:08 PM »
Using stereo pair with Mid-Side matrix you can play with ambiance or room sound, separately from direct sound.

JR

i find this M/S is not so good idea when multiple mikes used... phase revered side is always messing with
another channel... correcting phase-time relation  etc using tools is just making things more complicated, and ending up with totally different mix... spaced and OTRF with mid mike i like much better..



living sounds

Re: re sampling through speakers
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2019, 03:29:41 PM »
Static convolution approaches cannot capture what is going on in an actual room. There are some good explanations on Quantecs website. Their reverb algorithm uses an approach that simulates the pressure differences and resulting frequency changes of sound in a room. To my ears, it's the only digital reverb that actually feels like a room and doesn't smear the signal.

So, not a waste of time recording your speakers. Bruce Svedien did that with keyboard sounds on the Michael Jackson albums, btw.

squarewave

Re: re sampling through speakers
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2019, 04:02:40 PM »
Speakers are very effective filters. Consider that a Jensen P12Q (common guitar amp alnico speaker) has a very distinct frequency response with a boost at 2K and nothing above 5K. E-guitar > Fuzz pedal > HiFi amp > P12Q > mic can sound very nice because the P12Q crushes the nasty HF content from the pedal. When pushed, a speaker is also a very effective limiter.

JohnRoberts

Re: re sampling through speakers
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2019, 04:17:37 PM »
Not to veer too much but a respected loud speaker designer friend of mine uses recording media to help identify speaker errors. You begin with a known reference sound sample, play it through the test loudspeaker and capture an accurate recording (modern recording media is much more linear than loud speakers). Then you take that first pass recording and play it again, record it again, rinse and repeat... After enough passes through any loudspeaker will reveal its most subtle colorations and errors.  8)

JR
Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

kambo

Re: re sampling through speakers
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2019, 06:03:45 PM »
there is NI version of Quantec yardstick  for Reaktor...
never owned the original, but this thing is pretty damn good !

living sounds

Re: re sampling through speakers
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2019, 09:15:07 PM »
there is NI version of Quantec yardstick  for Reaktor...
never owned the original, but this thing is pretty damn good !

Yes, I had that too, but I don't think it actually does what the Quantec algorithm does. I remember the plugin had a density parameter (the real one hasn't) and lacked the independent reverb times for high and low end (I've got a QRS, there's really nothing like it, sent a kick through with low end at 10 and hear it booom). It seems to be quite difficult to tune the algorithm to a sweetspot where it can sound realistic while actually producing a much coarser response than a real room.

kambo

Re: re sampling through speakers
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2019, 09:57:48 PM »
Yes, I had that too, but I don't think it actually does what the Quantec algorithm does. I remember the plugin had a density parameter (the real one hasn't) and lacked the independent reverb times for high and low end (I've got a QRS, there's really nothing like it, sent a kick through with low end at 10 and hear it booom). It seems to be quite difficult to tune the algorithm to a sweetspot where it can sound realistic while actually producing a much coarser response than a real room.

i am using 2 of these at a time, with different  EQ and rev settings on each....

ln76d

Re: re sampling through speakers
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2019, 05:42:38 AM »
Not sure that spending cash on good studio will give you what you really want.
For example i always record keyboards (or other synths) thru guitar tube amp into ribbon or coil dynamic mic + room ambient condenser.
When i get just line recorded tracks then i'm reamping it same way as above.
Once i worked on album where whole drum tracks was made on MPC, sounds terrible but at least i had separated tracks for snare, kick etc. I reamped them same way in my drum room with more ambient takes from different distances.
What for all of that? To lower resultion, to roundup that synthetic highs, to glue to non synthetic sources like guitar, bass etc.
Works like a charm - result which i couldn't get with any plugin eq, exciter, reverb and other stuff. Also little bit distortion (read higher gain) from tube guitar amp adds nice harmonics etc.

living sounds

Re: re sampling through speakers
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2019, 06:17:02 AM »
Not sure that spending cash on good studio will give you what you really want.
For example i always record keyboards (or other synths) thru guitar tube amp into ribbon or coil dynamic mic + room ambient condenser.
When i get just line recorded tracks then i'm reamping it same way as above.
Once i worked on album where whole drum tracks was made on MPC, sounds terrible but at least i had separated tracks for snare, kick etc. I reamped them same way in my drum room with more ambient takes from different distances.
What for all of that? To lower resultion, to roundup that synthetic highs, to glue to non synthetic sources like guitar, bass etc.
Works like a charm - result which i couldn't get with any plugin eq, exciter, reverb and other stuff. Also little bit distortion (read higher gain) from tube guitar amp adds nice harmonics etc.

Sounds really interesting, where can we listen to it?

okgb

Re: re sampling through speakers
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2019, 08:33:11 PM »
put together a little remote rig for this and go into cheap or free spaces , experiment discover what you like and works
for you, then go more expensive places that have a known good reputation
GKB Audio / Greg Boboski

kambo

Re: re sampling through speakers
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2019, 09:22:32 PM »
put together a little remote rig for this and go into cheap or free spaces , experiment discover what you like and works
for you, then go more expensive places that have a known good reputation

yup, thats exactly whats my plan is..



 

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