mrclunk

Who makes half decent power amps these days?
« on: July 12, 2019, 10:53:45 AM »
I used to buy Crown's but i've read (online) that they're new stuff isn't very well built..

Where should i be looking?
Only need 200W ish per channel.

Any one heard of a company called    Citronic?
thanks


scott2000

Re: Who makes half decent power amps these days?
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2019, 11:52:32 AM »
Haven't heard of Citronic.... I know JR said some good things about the Hypex amps ... DIY

https://www.diyclassd.com/

mrclunk

Re: Who makes half decent power amps these days?
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2019, 11:57:30 AM »
Thanks, but I can't diy this one.
Going in a school music room...

Re: Who makes half decent power amps these days?
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2019, 12:42:55 PM »
Ive heard of a few Dj's that swear by Citronic , but to be honest I'd almost never trust a Dj to do a sound engineers job , the dynacord power amps are pretty reliable , its the same design of unit used by EV in the states ,
Crown/Amcron was a high end marque at one point , Ive seen a few of the modern competitive range from them in for repair and I wasn't impressed either with build quality or ease of service .

If its for use in a class room  you probably will want  a very quiet fan  that is speed controlled depending on load/power , I visited a studio recently ,in a college, where the people supposedly in the know got a mic splitter with a very noisey fan and intended it to be plonked right in the main recording area  ;D   was 2.5k of public money for zilch .  You could also consider a tamper proof panel concealing a comp/lim , just in case the new Jimi Hendrix decides to plug in a guitar and do feedback . Most amps nowadays come with switchable limiters of some sort as well as High Pass or basic crossover functionality , a DSP based amp would have much more ,but probably requires set up for a particular speaker type to get best performance/protection from misuse . The better gear of this type usually has a tamper proof  'system' set up where the user is locked out from messing with settings , typically theres a simple pass code to access the functionality or it all remains locked down . 


Gerald Jansen

Re: Who makes half decent power amps these days?
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2019, 01:20:01 PM »
Maybe anything in these quarters?
https://www.nordacoustics.co.uk/products

Note: I'm not affiliated (I was triggered by Hypex AND not DIY)

JohnRoberts

Re: Who makes half decent power amps these days?
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2019, 01:23:24 PM »
I used to buy Crown's but i've read (online) that they're new stuff isn't very well built..

Where should i be looking?
Only need 200W ish per channel.

Any one heard of a company called    Citronic?
thanks
If you read it online it must be true....  ::)

I was a product manager for power amps last century and they have gotten cheaper and better since then (no not because I stopped doing it). The modern class D chip sets seem pretty robust and very efficient (and lighter).

For a premium audio path I really like my hypex modules but I'm sure just about any major amp manufacturer that has distribution and local customer service near you will do..

Sorry no I am not familiar with citronic but I have been out of the trenches for decades so that doesn't mean much.

If you stick with a major brand name even if they are built in China you will have a warranty and customer service. I would avoid a cheaper than dirt no name brand, because you may get exactly what you paid for.

JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

cyrano

Re: Who makes half decent power amps these days?
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2019, 01:52:22 PM »
Citronic is a budget manufacturer that's been around for a while. Manufactured in China, of course. Not too bad for the money, but not really something I would buy personally. If I need budget gear, I'd go for QSC. That's our standard "go-to" for single amps.

Dynacord is good too, but about twice as expensive. Besides, I think their smallest is like 800W per channel or so.

We had Crowns in the past, liked them (except the weight), but these days they don't warrant their high price. Reliability isn't too high.

Sound-wise, I wouldn't worry. Haven't heard a bad amp in many years. Even Behringer's iNukes sound very good, but they do break once in a while.
Why is it people love to believe and hate to know?

Re: Who makes half decent power amps these days?
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2019, 02:29:46 PM »
I installed a  Behringer EP series in a church with full band set up one time , it was about 4x the power they were used too , and about 20x what they needed , could still be there for all I know ,
Id been wondering about the INuke series , never got to try one .

ruffrecords

Re: Who makes half decent power amps these days?
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2019, 05:57:54 PM »
What happened to HH?

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

Brian Roth

Re: Who makes half decent power amps these days?
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2019, 06:19:16 PM »
I know a few studios using Bryston amps and are very pleased.  Those amps also have a 20 year warrenty.

Bri
Brian Roth Technical Services
Salina Kansas, home of the best vinyl on the planet!

http://www.BrianRoth.com
recordingservicesandsupply.com/
www.qualityrecordpressings.com/
store.acousticsounds.com


Re: Who makes half decent power amps these days?
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2019, 10:22:03 PM »
HH's 500 watt per channel mosfet was a line in the sand for a very long time  , the Crown/amcron/macrotech took over as the new boss with 1200/2400 and subsequently 3000w models, the drop in heavy haulage hasnt pushed out the life expectancy of the roadies though ,must be a lifestyle thing

Whoops

Re: Who makes half decent power amps these days?
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2019, 11:54:29 PM »
I know a few studios using Bryston amps and are very pleased.  Those amps also have a 20 year warrenty.

Bri

I like Bryston amps also, would recommend those.

Are pretty expensive though.

abbey road d enfer

Re: Who makes half decent power amps these days?
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2019, 02:06:25 AM »
Market for power amps has shifted to high-power class D for sound reinforcement. Big players today are Powersoft, Lab Gruppen, Crown.
Studio is marginal. Almost everybody uses amplified boxes today.
Mid-power amps can still be found in installation products. Powersoft have their range of Duecanali. Smallest is 2x400W @8ohms.
For budget, you have Crown XLi, Behringer, QSC and a number of distributor's brands (T-amp). They are certainly not built like the DC300's were. Today they are more like commodities. Face the fact: your new amp may not last 20 years.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
Star ground is for electricians.

ruffrecords

www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

JohnRoberts

Re: Who makes half decent power amps these days?
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2019, 09:50:20 AM »
Market for power amps has shifted to high-power class D for sound reinforcement. Big players today are Powersoft, Lab Gruppen, Crown.
and at least a few more brands. Peavey was making class D amps before I went to work there in the mid 80s.
Quote
Studio is marginal. Almost everybody uses amplified boxes today.

Powered cabinets are also gaining popularity for live sound reinforcement. KISS
Quote
Mid-power amps can still be found in installation products. Powersoft have their range of Duecanali. Smallest is 2x400W @8ohms.
For budget, you have Crown XLi, Behringer, QSC and a number of distributor's brands (T-amp). They are certainly not built like the DC300's were. Today they are more like commodities. Face the fact: your new amp may not last 20 years.
Thankfully they are not like the old DC300s. DC coupled power amps are not good around speakers.  :-[ Crown did a later series (CE1000/2000) that just about lifted the DC300 topology verbatim. At least they lost the DC coupling in the remake. 

Yes power amps are even more of a commodity these days than they ever were. This is not necessarily a bad thing. I repeat my advice look for a decent established brand with distribution and customer service near you.

JR

PS: If DJs can't easily kill Citronic amps that is not a bad thing. Even Behringer copied credible designs (like QSC) for their early amp offerings. These days everybody is probably using the same chip sets inside (speculation). Modern class D amps run cooler that (should) translates to better reliability.
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

abbey road d enfer

Re: Who makes half decent power amps these days?
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2019, 01:02:00 PM »
and at least a few more brands.
Indeed, but (at least on our side of the ocean) they are the most seen.

Quote
Peavey was making class D amps before I went to work there in the mid 80s.
Indeed, class D is not born yesterday, but a quantum leap happened not too long ago when digital modulators appeared in them, along with the performance improvements of power devices.

Quote
  Powered cabinets are also gaining popularity for live sound reinforcement.
Not so much in high-power systems than mid/small size. The main constraint is the weight limit of rigging points. Even if amplifiers have enjoyed drastic weight reduction, it is still beneficial in terms of weight to have them separate. It'll probably change one day.
To my knowledge, Meyer sound is the only major proponent.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
Star ground is for electricians.

JohnRoberts

Re: Who makes half decent power amps these days?
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2019, 02:23:45 PM »
Indeed, but (at least on our side of the ocean) they are the most seen.
 Indeed, class D is not born yesterday, but a quantum leap happened not too long ago when digital modulators appeared in them, along with the performance improvements of power devices.
Unfortunately I got to watch the progression of class D advancement play out over decades in painfully slow motion. Way too slow to deliver on the promised benefits of class D (lighter weight and most importantly cheaper) last century when I was tasked with selling them. 
Quote

 Not so much in high-power systems than mid/small size. The main constraint is the weight limit of rigging points. Even if amplifiers have enjoyed drastic weight reduction, it is still beneficial in terms of weight to have them separate. It'll probably change one day.
To my knowledge, Meyer sound is the only major proponent.
IIRC the OP is talking about a music room system for students, a modest powered cabinet may not be crazy, and harder for the students to kill.

JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

Whoops

Re: Who makes half decent power amps these days?
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2019, 05:44:26 AM »
Powered cabinets are also gaining popularity for live sound reinforcement.

Not Really

Market for power amps has shifted to high-power class D for sound reinforcement. Big players today are Powersoft, Lab Gruppen, Crown.

Yes, those are the brands I work the most in Live Sound nowadays, specially Powersoft and Lab Gruppen.
And I can testify that amps from those brands sound really good.

There was weight, heating and power consumption reasons for the move to Class D in Live Sound, but Powersoft and Lab Gruppen also sound amazing.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2019, 11:50:46 AM by Whoops »

mrclunk

Re: Who makes half decent power amps these days?
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2019, 04:52:12 AM »
Thanks for all the input!
I think class D is the way to go in this situation, amp will be in the room so noisy fans are a no no.
Powered speakers are out, there's already a 4 passive speaker system cabled in, with a crap hifi amp that overheats and cuts out.

At the mo amp  will depend on what speaker / budget they go for. 
I want to stick JBL control 5's (4ohm) in but they may go for the smaller cheaper Control 1's. A mixture may work better now i think about it, Ronnies at the front.

I wanted to just run the 2 pairs of speakers in parallel but available amps don't seem happy running at 2 ohms like the old Crowns.

This may well fit the bill tho?  Cheap as chips...
I'd put it through some serious abuse before installing it tho, in my experience Behringer gear lives or dies in the first 24hrs.
https://www.behringer.com/Categories/Behringer/Power-Amplifiers/Portable/EPQ304/p/P0A1S/Downloads#googtrans(en|en)

I'll have a look at QSC tho, never used them.

EDIT:
Looks like that Belringer amp series is a total rip off of QSC GX.



« Last Edit: July 15, 2019, 05:25:58 AM by mrclunk »

cyrano

Re: Who makes half decent power amps these days?
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2019, 06:26:23 PM »
Funny.  :)

I just ordered that Behringer for an art project as it's the cheapest decent 4-channel amp I could find. It will be driving some small KEF bookshelf speakers, so I don't need/want kilowatt power.

The fan is really noisy. I'll probably be replacing it with a 24V Papst one and reversing airflow so it blows out the back. Might look into including a filter too.
Why is it people love to believe and hate to know?


 

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