scott2000

Trying to find help for a family member.

A couple of years ago She lost her husband to divorce. Adultery involved as well from my understanding. Father passed around same time. Had a disabled son and two other children she took care of for 16 years. Pretty stand up woman until all of this. She was supported by her husband  for close to 20 years so, it was a big change to say the least even with the court ordered payments she was supposed to receive or has received.

She's been drinking herself to nothing and I'm pretty sure some anti-depressants or whatever.

Anyhow she's lost the three children recently from them voicing things to their friend's families and the father has taken them. Courts are ready to step in this month and probably give full custody to him.

My wife and I are worried for her life . There's plenty to be concerned about regarding this situation as far as urgency goes but I don't want to make this longer than it needs to be atm.....

Not sure how to intervene. She's a couple of hours away and my wife and I are willing to take her in but, I'm not sure of any direction to take.

She's about to lose her home (rented for 10 years afaik) , lost her health insurance, has no money , no job (had 2 recently and couldn't hold them) , and we're not swimming in finances to send her somewhere if that were even an option.

Anyone ever dealt with something similar and or might have some advice or insight on this?

I know it's a bit of a heavy topic and I appreciate anything someone may be able to share.  From experience or not.


Spiritworks

Re: Success of Alcohol Addiction/Substance Abuse Intervention or Treatment?
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2019, 06:47:37 AM »
It's very kind of you and your wife to be so concerned about this person, and very noble of you both to want to take her in. I have no direct experience, except to know several people over the years who have been in twelve step, AA or similar programs. The one common factor in getting help is that they had to admit a problem and then accept that they did indeed need the help. It's always a long and painful journey, often beset with all kinds of roadblocks, detours and the like. 
I would suggest lining up a program and some type of assistance  ahead of time and then make her offer to stay with you dependent on the fact that she agrees to get into them. 
There are most likely some residential programs available which are sponsored by a church organization in your area. These typically take in a client for a given amount of time, providing structure and emotional support while helping them deal with their illness. This is probably the best step for you and your wife to consider. Tell your family member that, if she gets into one of these programs and successfully completes her stay, that she can look forward to landing at your place until she is able to make a decision as to how to proceed.
Simply taking her in off of the street will no doubt open up a whole host of issues for you and your wife that will be untenable.
Good luck, and best wishes for your relative's recovery.

scott2000

Re: Success of Alcohol Addiction/Substance Abuse Intervention or Treatment?
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2019, 07:55:11 AM »
Quote
The one common factor in getting help is that they had to admit a problem and then accept that they did indeed need the help.

Thanks!

I'm only getting pieces of stories and, some of the missing bits are turning out to be important pieces as they relate to how the situation is actually going down over there but she has been to a few AA meetings and actually checked herself into a Church program where she lives only to sign herself out 2 days later.

My wife and brother in law actually met her for lunch last week and she was like 80 pounds and didn't eat. Later that same night on the way somewhere, she totaled her car into a pole so now there's that.  She's fine and no consequences other than  now she has a rental car and a check coming for the amount of the totaled car soon.

She definitely knows she needs help and I guess takes little random steps but the urge to just quit and give up on life seems to be the most recurring solution chosen. From my understanding this is just the disease thinking for her but, it's still reality.

I should have really said this was going to be more of a forced intervention with us going and taking her away from where she is but we need to come up with a plan beyond that. 

The one place we've checked into here that has an inpatient program wants insurance to proceed so we'll check into the Church programs around here. The place we spoke with suggested taking her to the hospital to have them detox her at the very least because it sounds like she is dangerously living on alcohol alone.


Thanks for sharing . I really appreciate it !

« Last Edit: September 07, 2019, 08:38:28 AM by scott2000 »

JohnRoberts

Re: Success of Alcohol Addiction/Substance Abuse Intervention or Treatment?
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2019, 11:43:35 AM »
Good luck, I have nothing constructive to add other than she needs more friends like you.

JR
Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

rackmonkey

Re: Success of Alcohol Addiction/Substance Abuse Intervention or Treatment?
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2019, 01:17:12 PM »
I’ve seen a number of bandmates and friends go through programs like that over the years. From what I’ve seen, the addict has to come to the place where they want to stop, and will do whatever it takes to do so for it to stick. Some people call it “hitting bottom”. Otherwise, it can only take a small setback for them to fall right back into it.

But in her situation it can’t hurt to try, regardless of where she’s at with it. Maybe combined with some therapy to work through her problems, she can get healthy.

She’s lucky to have such friends as you and your wife, I can tell you that.

Good luck.
Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're probably right.

scott2000

Re: Success of Alcohol Addiction/Substance Abuse Intervention or Treatment?
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2019, 05:37:08 PM »
Quote
Some people call it “hitting bottom”. Otherwise, it can only take a small setback for them to fall right back into it.

Yeah. I'm hoping for more than just some unneeded chaos without a result but know the chances are there. She's had a tough turn of events.  It's real sad and I can't get over how fast everything just took a dive. Pretty incredible.

I'm hopeful we can help.

Thanks everyone!

edit--- Just found out about the Marchman Act.  ...Going to dig a bit into it and see if it may be a good possibility......



« Last Edit: September 08, 2019, 09:02:00 AM by scott2000 »

living sounds

Re: Success of Alcohol Addiction/Substance Abuse Intervention or Treatment?
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2019, 06:05:00 PM »
Yes, I also think she needs friends like you. And a perspective in her life, otherwise, why stop drinking?

As for treatment, AA has a mediocre success rate, at least against the 'control group':

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/aa-is-faith-based-not-evidence-based/

Counterintuitively, what seems to work best are psychedelic drugs like LSD, psilocybin or D.M.T. Unfortunately, also very likely to be illegal where you live.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0269881119845793?journalCode=jopa&

Whatever you do, I hope you suceed.

scott2000

Re: Success of Alcohol Addiction/Substance Abuse Intervention or Treatment?
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2019, 07:10:25 PM »
Quote


Counterintuitively, what seems to work best are psychedelic drugs like LSD, psilocybin or D.M.T. Unfortunately, also very likely to be illegal where you live.



Yes I don't get too excited hearing the stories of recovering alcoholics. It seems like a constant battle and very easy to go back...

One video I circulated to the family a couple of months ago was regarding an anti-opiate (naltrexone I think)..... seemed like a sound theory. But I don't think it ever took interest or was ever watched.....

How I overcame alcoholism | Claudia Christian | TEDxLondonBusinessSchool

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EghiY_s2ts

Thanks for the insight... I'll check those links....

Re: Success of Alcohol Addiction/Substance Abuse Intervention or Treatment?
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2019, 07:19:50 PM »
Ramming someone into treatment  doesnt work ,
The AA route simply tries to replace addiction to substance with addiction to god ,
services will addict you to prescription dope and shorten your life,
Learning how to express deep seated hurt can be the cosmic turnaround for some ,although without achknowledgement by the wider  family its often too little too late . Seen it , buried friends over it ,its still happening  :'(

scott2000

Re: Success of Alcohol Addiction/Substance Abuse Intervention or Treatment?
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2019, 07:33:24 PM »
Yeah I get that. 
I'm really looking for a quick escape plan so she doesn't hurt herself or worse. Too many things have happened in recent past and something needs to be done asap. My hands are somewhat tied too......

I know some of the programs offer therapy like DBT which I've been interested in but, who knows.

That LSD study has pretty amazing results....not surprising.....

She's so frail now I'm not sure how she could handle something like that. I'm guessing there are places that administer it properly???? .

It's unfortunate these days because it doesn't seem like there is any time when she is actually sober where I could give it a shot talking with her. I've tried in the past and we connected pretty well but it didn't seem to help in the long run I suppose....

Even when my wife and brother in law took her to lunch to talk , I guess she was causing a scene being loud and whatever..... But She passed out on the way back home with my brother in law as he was driving......

A part of the reason I would be willing to help by bringing her here is that I think the caring environment would help in addition to whatever....

Everyday my wife and I have to wait for the update that she's still alive . It's that bad... At least from here.... :-\
I'm optimistic that I'm over thinking it . But that's just helping me I'm sure...

Ramming someone into treatment  doesnt work ,
« Last Edit: September 08, 2019, 07:57:53 PM by scott2000 »


Re: Success of Alcohol Addiction/Substance Abuse Intervention or Treatment?
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2019, 09:07:39 PM »
You can lead a horse to water ,but you cant make em drink (or not drink),
Sometimes a total outsiders perspective carries more weight than Family and friends ,
find a 'rebuild' community ,accompany her down there, without an 'enforcement' type vibe ,

CJ

Re: Success of Alcohol Addiction/Substance Abuse Intervention or Treatment?
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2019, 10:42:18 PM »
get her into detox  or a treatment program, there are resources for financing,

after she kicks then they will  tell her to go to AA meetings,  which i hope she does,

what happens after that is anybody's guess, could be jails, institutions or death or it could be recovery,

If I can't fix it, I can fix it so nobody else can!
Frank's Tube Page: www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/vs.html
Guitar Amps: http://bmamps.com/Tech_sch.html

DaveP

Re: Success of Alcohol Addiction/Substance Abuse Intervention or Treatment?
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2019, 04:34:12 AM »
From my experience with people like this, the root cause is chronic Low Self-Esteem, the alcohol blurs the feeling while it lasts.

When they lose everything they had of value, they think the future is hopeless and it becomes a downward spiral.

Your job would be to help her unwind this thought pattern and show (maybe by examples of others?) that its possible to recover.
The Church does have some success in this field because of its message that God loves us no matter what.  But as others have said, she has to make a choice (yes, she still has those).

Scott, you are a good man (I picked that up from your posts way back) and I hope that you remain united with your wife in what is an enormous undertaking with no guarantee of success, don't do anything that she does not 100% support.

My wife and I took in a neighbour who had attempted suicide, 12 years later he lives nearby and he helped me stack my winter wood store yesterday.  What inspired me was the Hebrew scripture "whoever saves a life saves the world entire".

You have my prayers

DaveP
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 08:31:10 AM by DaveP »
Soundcloud: Delayed Action.

scott2000

Re: Success of Alcohol Addiction/Substance Abuse Intervention or Treatment?
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2019, 08:33:46 AM »
Quote

Sometimes a total outsiders perspective carries more weight than Family and friends ,
find a 'rebuild' community ,accompany her down there, without an 'enforcement' type vibe ,

Makes sense..... We have a United Way here.....Maybe I should see what they have to offer? Is that what  you are referring to??

Quote
get her into detox  or a treatment program, there are resources for financing,

after she kicks then they will  tell her to go to AA meetings,  which i hope she does,

what happens after that is anybody's guess, could be jails, institutions or death or it could be recovery,



Thanks! Looking into some places I found what looks to be a "nice" behavioral treatment/detox center near her. They have some good reviews but it seems large and I am not sure just yet....


Quote
From my experience with people like this, the root cause is chronic Low Self-Esteem, the alcohol blurs the feeling while it lasts.

When they lose everything they had of value, they think the future is hopeless and it becomes a downward spiral.

Your job would be to help her unwind this thought pattern and show (maybe by examples of others?) that its possible to recover.
The Church does have some success in this field because of its message that God loves us no matter what.  But as others have said, she has to make a choice (yes, she still has those).

Scott, you are a good man (I picked that up from your posts way back) and I hope that you remain united with your wife in what is an enormous undertaking with no guarantee of success, don't do anything that she does not 100% support.

My wife and I took in a neighbour who had attempted suicide, 12 years later he lives nearby and he helped me stack my winter wood store yesterday.  What inspired me was the Hebrew scipture "whoever saves a life saves the world entire".


Thanks! Yes my thinking is very similar. I actually shared with her some of the encouragements that I lean on regularly and it was well received at the time. 

And my wife is 100% supportive in this. I asked her if it was ok to reach out here before posting :)

That's a neat scripture. I hadn't looked into those before. Thanks for that.

Thanks again everyone!


Re: Success of Alcohol Addiction/Substance Abuse Intervention or Treatment?
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2019, 07:29:49 PM »
Detox is the first step. If she's suicidal you might be able to get her committed for observation for 48 to 72 hours. The detox will begin then. Alcohol is very physically  and psychologically addictive. It could take her a week to detox enough to start reasoning clearly again.

12 step programs wouldn't still be around if they didn't work for some people. I am a big fan. I think anyone could learn more about themselves by doing the steps, sober or not.

It's easy to get hung up on the God aspect of AA, but that's why the program talks about "a higher power of your own understanding". "Good Orderly Direction" and "Group Of Drunks" are what many 12 steppers look to as their "higher power". The key idea is the addict realizes what they are doing is killing them and finally decides "anything has to be better than this".  AA folks call this "the gift of desperation". When the addict hits rock bottom and ANYTHING looks better then how they are handling things. Those are the people most open to change. I hope your family member gets there quickly. 

living sounds

Re: Success of Alcohol Addiction/Substance Abuse Intervention or Treatment?
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2019, 03:53:48 PM »

12 step programs wouldn't still be around if they didn't work for some people. I am a big fan. I think anyone could learn more about themselves by doing the steps, sober or not.

Homeopathy, Voodoo, exorcism, etc. are still around. That doesn't mean they are a sensible option let alone the best option. Again, the evidence isn't on their side (see my link posted above).

gyraf

Re: Success of Alcohol Addiction/Substance Abuse Intervention or Treatment?
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2019, 04:59:24 AM »
Quote
Homeopathy, Voodoo, exorcism, etc. are still around.

Let's not derail the discussion, but those methods are very powerful placebo/nocebo enablers - please don't underestimate their effectiveness for diseases of psychological origin..

And agree, don't get too focused on the religious aspect of the AA - the main mechanism is the group therapy part, which works pretty well compared to fighting alone. I'm not even sure we have the god-aspect at all in European AA culture.
..note to self: don't let Harman run your company..

living sounds

Re: Success of Alcohol Addiction/Substance Abuse Intervention or Treatment?
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2019, 07:53:41 AM »
Let's not derail the discussion, but those methods are very powerful placebo/nocebo enablers - please don't underestimate their effectiveness for diseases of psychological origin..

Yes, but would you (or better a professional qualified to judge) actually recommend them as treatment? And recommend them against better alternatives?

gyraf

Re: Success of Alcohol Addiction/Substance Abuse Intervention or Treatment?
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2019, 09:48:59 AM »
I hear you - but sometimes the available help is much better than no help. As little as I like the AA's methods, I also know people - including close friends - whose life they literally saved. Just sayin'..
..note to self: don't let Harman run your company..

JohnRoberts

Re: Success of Alcohol Addiction/Substance Abuse Intervention or Treatment?
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2019, 10:03:25 AM »
I hear you - but sometimes the available help is much better than no help. As little as I like the AA's methods, I also know people - including close friends - whose life they literally saved. Just sayin'..
+1

Thanks for a sensible and constructive post...

Good luck.

JR
Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.


 

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