Gold

Re: personal Vinyl cutter : phonocut
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2019, 07:26:46 PM »
but it did surprise me how much more I preferred the experience of the ancient technology.

It’s a forest and trees thing. A record is an enjoyable listening experience. I usually listen to a side of a record all the way through without distractions. CD/digital not so much.

You can focus on specs and come to the conclusion that records are wholly inferior or you can listen and come to the conclusion that they sound pretty good.


abbey road d enfer

Re: personal Vinyl cutter : phonocut
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2019, 07:40:30 PM »
I listen regularly to vinyls, since many have not been released in CD format. I have  a rather decent turntable and a very good cartridge; it sounds good but I'm not blown away. I made comparisons of tracks by Eddie Cochran, Elvis Presley and the Shadows and I couldn't tell a significant quality difference; sometimes I noticed differences due to different processing, though.
Different people, different experience, I guess...
I believe if I made the same comparison between a current release, I would note the ravages of the loudness war on the CD edition.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
Star ground is for electricians.

Gold

Re: personal Vinyl cutter : phonocut
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2019, 08:42:20 PM »
I  try to avoid  wading into subjective discussions about records. I will say that weakness of records are also their strengths in a lot of ways.

The ear tends to like the things you have to do to have a good sounding record.  A record isn’t a perfect medium. That  it’s still viable is a testament to remarkably good design for 19th century technology.

Gold

Re: personal Vinyl cutter : phonocut
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2019, 10:15:22 PM »
Quote from: Winston O'Boogie link=topic=73604.msg932275#msg932275 date


By the way, I went on a bit of  YouTube binge after comparing vinyl to CD at my mate's and I've just watched one with you  "For The Record: All-Analog Mastering" Johnny Rock and Friends.  Much respect and admiration  :)

Thanks. I thought that video came out well.  I’m glad you liked it.  I had nothing to do with the video part.

Re: personal Vinyl cutter : phonocut
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2019, 12:17:32 PM »
Thanks. I thought that video came out well.  I’m glad you liked it.  I had nothing to do with the video part.

I'd love to read/see more about your preview Ampex machines and also your custom A & B path desk.  Is there anywhere you've talked about that stuff? 

JohnRoberts

Re: personal Vinyl cutter : phonocut
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2019, 01:09:41 PM »
I had this conversation with John several years ago, and he apparently still doesn't believe me.  He rebuilt a 43 amp into a SS power amp chassis, and it's news to me now that he still might have one of the other amps (41 or 42).   They'll each bring north of $10K in about any condition these days, or if it's just a salvageable faceplate there's a WE collector out there somewhere who will pay around a grand just for that part, or more for any collection of unobtainium replacement parts.  But, he can take it to the dump if he wants.
I will gladly gift you the E-41-C sitting out in my laundry room, if you pay shipping. It is untouched but IIRC is missing the tube compartment that hung off the front, unless I am confusing it with the third piece.

As I recall these were pretty heavy so will not ship well in a cardboard box...

I suspect we had this exact conversation before.  So tag you are it (again?)... you want it... FREE, just figure out shipping? I am about ready to carry the 41-C to the curb after humping it around the country with me for several decades. 

I think I threw away the third WE piece already (you could have it too but I don't see it around). My hifi amp built into a WE 43-A still works (although I don't use it) and it probably weighs more than 100# (the transformer I put in there is 65# all by itself).
====
I have discarded probably tens of thousands, new cost, of old computers/test equipment that I first tried to sell. I did find interest in some of the more classic old stuff (even the old heathkit stuff), but that interest waned when shipping costs had to be covered. Shipping costs have only increased since then.

JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

EmRR

Re: personal Vinyl cutter : phonocut
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2019, 01:51:31 PM »
OK John, I'll follow up on this again. 
Best,

Doug Williams
Electromagnetic Radiation Recorders

"I think this can be better. Some kind of control that's intuitive, not complicated like a single knob" - Crusty

"Back when everything sounde

Gold

Re: personal Vinyl cutter : phonocut
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2019, 04:50:46 PM »
I'd love to read/see more about your preview Ampex machines and also your custom A & B path desk.  Is there anywhere you've talked about that stuff?


My preview machines are Studer A80VU pre machines. I have three. One set up for 1/4" and another for 1/2". Both were gone over with a fine tooth comb by Dan Zellman who is an old school NY tech who is/was Studer certified. The third preview machine is a custom made 1" preview deck. It's the only one in existence AFAIK. It was pieced together by Dan Zellman and John French. John made the head block and Dan did the transport and audio electronics.

I also have a 1/4" Telefunken M15 (not M15A)  preview machine. It was restored by Midnight Bob Shuster. He did an excellent job. That only does 7.5ips and 15ips so is not used as much. I also have an A80RC with 1/4" and 1/2" heads for recording as it's the only deck I have that records. Bob went over the A80RC too.

I have a thread going about the A/B path console. It's called "Shaker Desk". If you are unfamiliar the Shakers were a religious group in Upstate NY and New England in the late 1800's that made incredible furniture. It's very austere. There is no adornment. the simplicity of function over form is a very modern concept. One of the operating principles of the console is hot have the right number of controls for me. Not one more and not one less than ideal.

I'm in year 12 of construction. I had never put a time frame on it before. It's done when it's done. I am now closing in on the finish line. I expect it to be done by June 2020. Then I can start rebuilding everything:) The thread is at the link.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/prorecordingworkshop/shaker-desk-t19405751.html
« Last Edit: November 04, 2019, 04:56:47 PM by Gold »

JohnRoberts

Re: personal Vinyl cutter : phonocut
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2019, 04:56:18 PM »

My preview machines are Studer A80VU pre machines. I have three. One set up for 1/4" and another for 1/2". Both were gone over with a fine tooth comb by Dan Zellman who is an old school NY tech who is/was Studer certified. The third preview machine is a custom made 1" preview deck. It's the only one in existence AFAIK. It was pieced together by Dan Zellman and John French. John made the head block and Dan did the transport and audio electronics.

I also have a 1/4" Telefunken M15 (not M15A)  preview machine. That only does 7.5ips and 15ips so is not used as much. I also have an A80RC with 1/4" and 1/2" heads for recording as it's the only deck I have that records.

I have a thread going about the A/B path console. It's called "Shaker Desk". If you are unfamiliar the Shakers were a religious group in Upstate NY and New England in the late 1800's that made incredible furniture. It's very austere. There is no adornment. the simplicity of function over form is a very modern concept. One of the operating principles of the console is hot have the right number of controls for me. Not one more and not one less than ideal.
The Shakers were famous for prohibiting sex between followers. For some funny reason they died out...  ::) ::)

JR

PS: I vaguely recall shaker chairs as being collectable.
Quote
I'm in year 12 of construction. I had never put a time frame on it before. It's done when it's done. I am now closing in on the finish line. I expect it to be done by June 2020. Then I can start rebuilding everything:) The thread is at the link.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/prorecordingworkshop/shaker-desk-t19405751.html
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

Gold

Re: personal Vinyl cutter : phonocut
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2019, 05:24:12 PM »
The Shakers were famous for prohibiting sex between followers. For some funny reason they died out...  ::) ::)

JR

PS: I vaguely recall shaker chairs as being collectable.

Yeah, places like the Museum of Modern Art collect it.


Re: personal Vinyl cutter : phonocut
« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2019, 05:58:26 PM »
Thanks for the rundown on your Ampex machines Paul.   Building a 1" preview machine shows massive determination and dedication but then this:

I'm in year 12 of construction. I had never put a time frame on it before. It's done when it's done. I am now closing in on the finish line. I expect it to be done by June 2020. Then I can start rebuilding everything:) The thread is at the link.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/prorecordingworkshop/shaker-desk-t19405751.html

Wow!  The name is perfect for the concept, The whole look is organic and oozes with your DNA.   This is a desk you'd want your vinyl mastered through.
I've bought Shallco switches myself in the past and they sure were expensive for a 3 deck switch,  but then there's your 12 deck H pad switch!  I bet you know you're switching something when you turn that thing 😄
Again, respect.

Gold

Re: personal Vinyl cutter : phonocut
« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2019, 06:24:30 PM »
Thanks John. That means a lot from someone with your deep audio knowledge.

Re: personal Vinyl cutter : phonocut
« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2019, 07:21:30 PM »
Thanks John. That means a lot from someone with your deep audio knowledge.

The stuff I don't know runs much deeper,  bravado and swagger can embellish the stuff I do 😜

Re: personal Vinyl cutter : phonocut
« Reply #33 on: November 04, 2019, 08:16:43 PM »
Id never witnessed the dark art of vinyl cutting before ,
Maybe in the next generation of the console you could add stepper motors to the rotary switches for fast recall  ,
might save having to duplicate every  control twice to facilitate changeover between tracks .


Gold

Re: personal Vinyl cutter : phonocut
« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2019, 08:38:20 PM »
Id never witnessed the dark art of vinyl cutting before ,
Maybe in the next generation of the console you could add stepper motors to the rotary switches for fast recall  ,
might save having to duplicate every  control twice to facilitate changeover between tracks .

I would have no idea how to do that. I’m not sure it would work. Changeover needs to happen silently without muting the console. That would mean redesign  everything with VCA’s. I don’t know how to do that either and wouldn’t want to if I did.

Besides that I like the visual feedback of both halves of the board. Another reason not to do that is I can use each half of the board separately if I want. I can do a dummy  run for a side on the B half while  doing digital mastering on the A side of the board. I don’t see it as an advantage.

PRR

Re: personal Vinyl cutter : phonocut
« Reply #35 on: November 04, 2019, 08:46:07 PM »
> The Shakers were famous for prohibiting sex between followers. For some funny reason they died out...  ::) ::)

Two are still living (down from 5,000+).  However they have hired goyim as household help and to staff the museum/store.

bluebird

Re: personal Vinyl cutter : phonocut
« Reply #36 on: November 04, 2019, 09:17:40 PM »
I cut everyday on a VMS66 like Paul (I think you have a VMS66 right?) I also have a Studer with a preview head. It sits around and collects dust though. I much prefer cutting from digital sources. I feel I can provide a better cut with all the plugins available now. One of the hardest thing about getting audio to the lacquer at a decent level is controlling high end. Also a reason why records are considered "warm". Your always filtering high end. One of the first records I was tasked with cutting years ago was Coltrane's Blue Train. I was using HD digital files from the original tape. There was so much cymbal energy on it. I was told to do it "flat" EQ wise by people who didn't know anything about cutting. I popped the breaker on the lathe twice which protected the cutter head from overheating. But eventually got it on there. Only to later learn that thats definitely not how people want to hear the record and ended up recutting it with quite a bit of high end lopped off. Somewhere out there there are a couple really bright versions of Blue Train... 8)

Point being there is a medium that can be met with look ahead digital de-essers. Where you don't have to just lop off high end with a filter but take care of just the amount you want. You get to add more artistry to the sound instead of being confined to what the medium demands using only analog tools. That said there is something magical about having the limitations of analog in the same way a full band in a room recording to tape does. Making full use of a split console and a Studer is a real performance and not many people can do it.



P.S. Paul you should check out the Fab Filter DS De-Esser for cutting if you haven't already. its pretty amazing at reducing "splatting" without reducing perceived high end. Takes a second to learn it but worth the effort. It seems to just take out the specific frequencies that are essing instead of gain reducing a high shelf like most do. Another tool in the box...

Gold

Re: personal Vinyl cutter : phonocut
« Reply #37 on: November 04, 2019, 09:42:23 PM »
I cut everyday on a VMS66 like Paul (I think you have a VMS66 right?)


P.S. Paul you should check out the Fab Filter DS De-Esser for cutting if you haven't already. its pretty amazing at reducing "splatting" without reducing perceived high end. Takes a second to learn it but worth the effort. It seems to just take out the specific frequencies that are essing instead of gain reducing a high shelf like most do. Another tool in the box...


I cut on a
VMS66/VG66/SX74.

I have a pair of Maselec MDS2 high frequency limiters. One for each side of the console. I even have unfinished faceplates for them so I can make them match the eventual engraved faceplates.

I will also start out with a pair of Maselec multi band compressors until I can con someone into designing the MB comp I want.  I’m not wanting for HF control.

I don’t feel constrained with analog tools. I use a MB comp plug in along with the Maselec MB but the MB I want designed would make that unnecessary.

This is the MB compressor idea. Someone please steal it.

https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=70580.0





« Last Edit: November 04, 2019, 11:02:43 PM by Gold »

EmRR

Re: personal Vinyl cutter : phonocut
« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2020, 01:27:12 PM »
I will gladly gift you the E-41-C sitting out in my laundry room, if you pay shipping. It is untouched but IIRC is missing the tube compartment that hung off the front, unless I am confusing it with the third piece.
I suspect we had this exact conversation before.  So tag you are it (again?)... you want it... FREE, just figure out shipping? I am about ready to carry the 41-C to the curb after humping it around the country with me for several decades. 
JR

Follow-up:  JR sent it to me, and we ran the value experiment.    I hit all the collectors I know and got a lot of tire-kicking.   Everyone wanted it, but the missing parts on the front meant no one wanted to spend real money.   I was told enough times by enough people that the missing parts would probably cost $2K to get custom made.  Lots of 1/4" brass parts, custom brass screws, etc.    In the end there's $500 to go to GroupDIY site costs, and I'm sending that shortly. 
Best,

Doug Williams
Electromagnetic Radiation Recorders

"I think this can be better. Some kind of control that's intuitive, not complicated like a single knob" - Crusty

"Back when everything sounde

JohnRoberts

Re: personal Vinyl cutter : phonocut
« Reply #39 on: June 22, 2020, 01:46:46 PM »
Follow-up:  JR sent it to me, and we ran the value experiment.    I hit all the collectors I know and got a lot of tire-kicking.   Everyone wanted it, but the missing parts on the front meant no one wanted to spend real money.   I was told enough times by enough people that the missing parts would probably cost $2K to get custom made.  Lots of 1/4" brass parts, custom brass screws, etc.    In the end there's $500 to go to GroupDIY site costs, and I'm sending that shortly.
Here's where I get to admit I was wrong (again)....

I was ready to drag this to the street for junk collection but Doug was convinced that this was worth something.  I packed this up (double boxed) and paid the $60+ UPS shipping cost (it was heavy), if Doug would donate the proceeds to the forum.

I admit I was wrong and the forum benefits (probably a win win for some).

Thank you Doug for converting this to Benjamins...

JR   
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.


 

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