hodad

Re: minimum wage
« on: March 05, 2020, 01:37:45 PM »

Less than 3% of workers are earning minimum wage.



But how many folks make less than, say $12/hour, which would be a reasonable hike in the minimum wage?  Remember, there has been zero adjustment in federal minimum wage since 2009.  Certainly market forces have pushed wages up slightly for many workers, but what has become evident is that market forces alone move slowly and not enough.   




dogears

Re: Re: minimum wage
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2020, 02:22:11 PM »
Quote
market forces alone move slowly and not enough
I'd love to discuss this on another thread, if you like.

JohnRoberts

Re: Re: minimum wage
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2020, 04:21:46 PM »
I'd love to discuss this on another thread, if you like.
Be careful what you wish for... this subject has been well inspected here before.

You guys should already know what I think..  Higher minimum wages means less entry level jobs...

JR

PS: Today I used self-check out when buying my groceries at wallyworld... that is one less "job" for entry level people to get on the bottom rung of the employment ladder.
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

dogears

Re: minimum wage
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2020, 05:09:52 PM »
Debating the minimum wage and its effects is an interesting topic but I think there's a good mental exercise here in the part I initially quoted.

Quote
market forces alone move slowly and not enough

This statement to me is really interesting. It is beneficial to come back to fundamentals. What are market forces? What is enough?

I think if we get to the heart, we can talk about this in very simple terms. Capitalism is predicated on individuals having the freedom to enter into exchange for mutual benefit.  When we use money as the medium, the exchange is triggered by an agreement between two individuals on price.  Market forces are nothing more than an aggregation of these single exchanges.  We talk about things like supply and demand but these are ethereal concepts that really represent these collected buying and selling definitions.

Individual hiring and firing decisions are not special or in any way different. Employment itself is an exchange between two individuals, and the exchange is made when two agree on a price.

I don't see how anyone could talk about market forces moving fast or slowly "enough". To make that judgment you're assuming you know the value of one unit of labor or another better than not only every individual singly but also everyone collectively.

If "enough" is something else - something not interested in actual value or free mutual exchange, but some kind of ideal of social justice... well, that's nothing to do with market forces at all, other than the fact that we're introducing an artificial price control onto a commodity. All that does is cause general price inflation for consumers, as well as eliminate jobs from the market.

JohnRoberts

Re: minimum wage
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2020, 05:22:21 PM »
Speaking of economics, here's an old joke and a new, not really a joke...

First the old, President Truman reportedly asked to find him a one armed economist, so the guy couldn't state his opinion then follow up with " but on the other hand" ...  ::)

OK new (?) psychologists joke that they and economists must be studying two difference species, the psychologists say they are studying humans while economists must be studying some new species they named  "econs" because they always behave rationally and we know humans do not always behave rationally.   8)

I now return you to the ongoing discussion about wages.


JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.