TAB N324/4A Sitral Supply Consumption
« on: March 06, 2020, 04:03:13 AM »
I've got one of these in a Sitral Rack which has a bunch of units in it and I'm trying to figure out what the current consumption of the supply is.  The audio documentation on Kubarth isn't helping me, but that might be my crappy German !

Unit is this one here : https://www.vintagetools.de/Audio/PSUs/TAB-powersupply-Typ-N-324-4A3.html

Kubarth Link here : http://audio.kubarth.com/rundfunk/getfile.cgi?f=A%2C34X%2CS0X-%23DW-U%5DR97-T%2BU1A8E%5D.%2CS%28T7V9U%3B%26PN%3C%261F%0A

Anyone able to tell me what the draw is on this (I know it's relative to the load of the units, but on power up with no audio passing for eg)  ?

I've read it can power 40 units, though I have 7 units:

3 X V357's
4 X V457's

Thanks !

NHNS


gyraf

Re: TAB N324/4A Sitral Supply Consumption
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2020, 04:10:50 AM »
It's total consumption will be the consumption of the attached units plus a bit for it's own regulation - all depending somewhat on what condition the units are in.

There's a 2At fuse on the front that delimits some sort of maximum

Why do you need to know? This sort of specs is rarely shown as it's mostly irrelevant..?

Easiest would probably be to get a mains-power-monitor, these are cheap and easy to use..

/Jakob E.
..note to self: don't let Harman run your company..

Rob Flinn

Re: TAB N324/4A Sitral Supply Consumption
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2020, 04:15:30 AM »
If you look at something like a Neve 1073 it draws around 100mA.  I've seen 8 of them powered from an LM317 based supply which delivers at best 1.5A.  I don't think you will have a  problem powering 7 Sitral modules from a 4A or even 2A supply.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2020, 04:24:15 AM by Rob Flinn »
regards Rob

Re: TAB N324/4A Sitral Supply Consumption
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2020, 05:57:06 AM »
Probably the noob way I posted the question.

I've been tripping my fuseboard occasionally with large transformers - recently had a 750w step down transformer continuously flip the RCD any time I turned it on - so I had to get rid of that.

I'm trying to figure out what sort of consumption this N324 draws - size and weight of the transformer has me afraid to turn it on ! 

As far as I calculated, all the units running at full whack would be between 500-600mA total.

Basically I'm trying to avoid tripping the fuseboard before I turn it on - but dying to turn it on and get my balancing amp's up and running !

 

Rob Flinn

Re: TAB N324/4A Sitral Supply Consumption
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2020, 07:17:10 AM »
The psu will only supply what the load on it demands.  In your case probably less than an amp.    4A @ 24v is 96W less losses in the psu.  So if your are stateside and 115v the supply is probably drawing les than an Amp.  If you are a 230v area, less than half an Amp.  So assuming the psu is working properly there shouldn't be ant problems.  You may have a large inrush due to the PSU Caps charging up but if that trips your power then you probably have a fault elsewhere.
.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2020, 08:20:14 PM by Rob Flinn »
regards Rob

PRR

Re: TAB N324/4A Sitral Supply Consumption
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2020, 07:39:37 PM »
"stable 24V output voltage with 4A current. Hi quality analog psu"

So 96 Watt output, say 50% efficient, 200VA input.

> continuously flip the RCD

Would a 200 Watt light-bulb(s) flip your RCB?

Is it actually tripping on "RC"? Or is it a combo RBC/over-current breaker? RCB is not total power but leakage. Potentially fatal leakage.

Are you in UK? There are standard tests for appliance leakage. Your nearest certified sparky or appliance service shop should be able to probe your stuff.

Re: TAB N324/4A Sitral Supply Consumption
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2020, 11:19:00 PM »
I'll expand - slightly off topic on the N324, but the context for my question will be clearer!


I live in one of the tallest residential buildings in the world and it is quite modern in terms of all infrastructre. It uses 220v power.
I'm running the studio on a single 13amp breaker out of 1 socket star formation setup on Furman conditioners.

I have around 120U of gear & synths and I'm at about 7-8 amps with everything going full whack, but everything is never all on together.

The tripping has been happening on the main board that supplys one side of our entire floor which is in the hallway - which means I've taken out 4 neighbours apartments - maintenance team have to be sent up to flip it back on as access is restricted to the panels. I've kept hidden while it happens - once I had the luxury of blaming a thunderstorm which was going on and called in the "power disruption"myself. If they came in, they might thing I was a spy or perhaps running some experiments that could put the state at risk, so it's best I avoid attention as they wouldn't be capable of understanding what they were seeing and would likely cause a bunch of problems for me out of ignorance.

"Shutdown" has only happened 3 times - those 3 times were the 3 times I turned on large 110v step down convertors (twice a 750w rated and once a 3000w rated)  - so we're talking about devices with large transformers.  I went without my 110v gear for over 6 months aprehensive of those transformers and I eventually sold them both and had nothing.

Clearly there's some sort of surge going on that causes an issue at power on.
I eventually replaced those step downs with a bunch of smaller 45w rated for individual units to get around that- I've only got 6 X 110v units.

But now I'm apprehensive about large transformers - it's like Large Transformer PTSD or something - and the N324 has a 4KG transformer !!

I'm trying to stay off the radar as I don't want issues from the management company.

I'm not allowed to make any alterations to the supply inside or outside  the apartment without getting about 7 million levels of approval and it would never go through in the end - it's basically a no go.

All is fine in the studio with power etc - but now I've got this sweet rack with 14 channels of Telefunken & Neumann DI's and I wanna turn it on so bad and get my makeup gain live - I'm just apprehensive and trying to ensure I don't have issues.


I can solder patchbays and do some basic recapping with instruction, but I basically haven't a clue what is going on beyond that - thus I've no idea if this is an issue or not given where I am.

Will it blow up the entire building ? :-p

gyraf

Re: TAB N324/4A Sitral Supply Consumption
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2020, 04:58:10 AM »
..this seems to be about transformer inrush current, not at all about actual consumption?

Get a soft-start circuit of the type made for large amplifiers? The type that has a relay in parallel with a input-current-limiting resistor, that will only switch to full-power after the transformer has built up magnetic field enough not to present a short to the mains..

/Jakob E.
..note to self: don't let Harman run your company..

Re: TAB N324/4A Sitral Supply Consumption
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2020, 01:14:19 PM »
I think so  yes - the consumption of the unit with the modules I have connected doesn't appear to be much - but the tranny has capability, and perhaps when it get's powered on it would cause a spike.  Maybe if I switch it on before all of the other gear in my boot up sequence it might be less problematic.

Re: TAB N324/4A Sitral Supply Consumption
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2020, 01:11:14 PM »
Right, I have it all cabled up and it's on the patchbay - massive 3 X Siemens 41 622 connectors on the back of it all to go with my existing rack of Tab/Telefunken/Neumann cards.  Gonna power it up in the morning tomorrow and see what happens, keep eyes's open for a large flash in the sky :-p


gyraf

Re: TAB N324/4A Sitral Supply Consumption
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2020, 04:12:43 AM »
..note to self: don't let Harman run your company..

Re: TAB N324/4A Sitral Supply Consumption
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2020, 04:40:49 AM »
In case you thought I was dead - it is the most uneventful boot up ever - really stable and i've been so busy playing through them I didn't make it back to update ! I'll take a photo of my amp rack and pop it up here over the next few days :-)

Stay safe guys & thanks for the advice.

Re: TAB N324/4A Sitral Supply Consumption
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2020, 02:43:14 AM »
Here's the 2 racks - I had the top one for a few years now, and the bottom is the new one.
Top Rack:
1 X v357, 1 X 457, 1 X 486
Bottom Rack:
3 X v357, 2 X v457, 2 X v1357s

There's something very enjoyable about setting gain structures with a small screwdriver :-)














 

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