JohnRoberts

Re: covid politics
« Reply #40 on: April 01, 2020, 11:22:47 AM »
WARNING... several members are flirting dangerously close with breaking the no ad hominem rule...

We are in the silly season of a presidential campaign, and political enmity is high and getting worse.  We are better than that, please behave.

JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.


fallout

Re: covid politics
« Reply #41 on: April 01, 2020, 11:34:45 AM »
lets stick to facts....  and not get personal, while that is an early sign of losing any debate.

This thread is to talk "about" politics wrt COVID19, not to spew out politics..... a different thing. We already get enough political speech from media.

JR

My apologies for adding to the mess. It just gets under my skin when people distort the truth to support 'their' agenda.

I hope those that are healthy stay healthy and I also hope that America (and the world in general) gets well!

I'm outta this one! ;)

-jay

edited previous post to remove  the unnecessary
« Last Edit: April 01, 2020, 11:46:57 AM by fallout »

living sounds

Re: covid politics
« Reply #42 on: April 01, 2020, 12:53:01 PM »
It just gets under my skin when people distort the truth to support 'their' agenda.


Trump really is the poster child for that kind of behaviour. People caught in his reality-distortion-field just don't notice it.

fallout

Re: covid politics
« Reply #43 on: April 01, 2020, 01:21:47 PM »
Trump really is the poster child for that kind of behaviour. People caught in his reality-distortion-field just don't notice it.

If anything resembles a 'reality-distortion-field', that would be the media.

JohnRoberts

Re: covid politics
« Reply #44 on: April 01, 2020, 01:30:12 PM »
Trump really is the poster child for that kind of behaviour. People caught in his reality-distortion-field just don't notice it.
opinions vary probably depending on which koolaid fountain you are drinking from...

===
To get back on topic talking "about" COVID politics... In another example of they must be reading my mind, it looks like the daily press conference with COVID team have stopped standing shoulder to shoulder... (it's about time). They probably shouldn't even be in the same room.

A new topic for political analysis is how some unfriendly media outlets are dropping parts or all of the daily COVID team updates.  I understand the political motivation to deny President Trump this daily opportunity to look presidential (or as presidential as he looks).

The unfriendly media want to edit these press conferences and inject their opinions. If I could read minds like you guys, I would suspect that they want to tell viewers what to think... but i can't, so won't.

Good luck with that strategy, President Trump is the first leader to take advantage of social media to speak directly to the public... If the unfriendly media outlets try to block him, they may force viewers to go around them to the source.

I do not deny that President Trump is taking advantage of this opportunity (duh), that doesn't mean that there is not also important information being disseminated by those briefings.  Deny the public access to the briefing at your own risk of losing ratings.


JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

JohnRoberts

Re: covid politics
« Reply #45 on: April 01, 2020, 01:35:49 PM »
If anything resembles a 'reality-distortion-field', that would be the media.

There are competing viewpoints about this, we all have our own different filters (worldview) that we use to interpret reality.  By now this should not be a secret to anyone that there are two different movies being seen here, but some here still believe that only their worldview is correct.  The best test of our individual filters it to watch history play out and see if we were correct. Unfortunately the mind does not like to admit being wrong, so this is not as simple as it sounds.


JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

fallout

Re: covid politics
« Reply #46 on: April 01, 2020, 01:43:50 PM »
There are competing viewpoints about this, we all have our own different filters (worldview) that we use to interpret reality.  By now this should not be a secret to anyone that there are two different movies being seen here, but some here still believe that only their worldview is correct.  The best test of our individual filters it to watch history play out and see if we were correct. Unfortunately the mind does not like to admit being wrong, so this is not as simple as it sounds.


JR

I wholeheartedly agree with you but it doesn't take much to see the media for what it is (yes, this includes Fox). It's not at all difficult to demonstrate the deception that takes place. Some things never change.

crazydoc

Re: covid politics
« Reply #47 on: April 01, 2020, 01:49:32 PM »
Facts (and there are video clips of each quote on the website):

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/trumps-statements-about-the-coronavirus/

Here’s what the president said in public remarks, interviews and tweets from Jan. 22 to March 10 -– one day before the World Health Organization declared the global outbreak a pandemic.

Jan. 22: “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.” — Trump in a CNBC interview.

Jan. 30: “We think we have it very well under control. We have very little problem in this country at this moment — five — and those people are all recuperating successfully. But we’re working very closely with China and other countries, and we think it’s going to have a very good ending for us … that I can assure you.” — Trump in a speech in Michigan.

Feb. 10: “Now, the virus that we’re talking about having to do — you know, a lot of people think that goes away in April with the heat — as the heat comes in. Typically, that will go away in April. We’re in great shape though. We have 12 cases — 11 cases, and many of them are in good shape now.” — Trump at the White House. (See our item “Will the New Coronavirus ‘Go Away’ in April?“)

Feb. 14: “There’s a theory that, in April, when it gets warm — historically, that has been able to kill the virus.  So we don’t know yet; we’re not sure yet. But that’s around the corner.” — Trump in speaking to National Border Patrol Council members.

Feb. 23: “We have it very much under control in this country.” — Trump in speaking to reporters.

Feb. 24: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!” — Trump in a tweet.

Feb. 26: “So we’re at the low level. As they get better, we take them off the list, so that we’re going to be pretty soon at only five people. And we could be at just one or two people over the next short period of time. So we’ve had very good luck.” — Trump at a White House briefing.

Feb. 26: “And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done.” — Trump at a press conference.

Feb. 26: “I think every aspect of our society should be prepared. I don’t think it’s going to come to that, especially with the fact that we’re going down, not up. We’re going very substantially down, not up.” — Trump at a press conference, when asked if “U.S. schools should be preparing for a coronavirus spreading.”

Feb. 27: “It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.” — Trump at a White House meeting with African American leaders.

Feb. 29: “And I’ve gotten to know these professionals. They’re incredible. And everything is under control. I mean, they’re very, very cool. They’ve done it, and they’ve done it well. Everything is really under control.” — Trump in a speech at the CPAC conference outside Washington, D.C.

March 4: “[W]e have a very small number of people in this country [infected]. We have a big country. The biggest impact we had was when we took the 40-plus people [from a cruise ship]. … We brought them back. We immediately quarantined them. But you add that to the numbers. But if you don’t add that to the numbers, we’re talking about very small numbers in the United States.” — Trump at a White House meeting with airline CEOs.

March 4: “Well, I think the 3.4% is really a false number.” — Trump in an interview on Fox News, referring to the percentage of diagnosed COVID-19 patients worldwide who had died, as reported by the World Health Organization. (See our item “Trump and the Coronavirus Death Rate.”)

March 7: “No, I’m not concerned at all. No, we’ve done a great job with it.” — Trump, when asked by reporters if he was concerned about the arrival of the coronavirus in the Washington, D.C., area.

March 9: “So last year 37,000 Americans died from the common Flu. It averages between 27,000 and 70,000 per year. Nothing is shut down, life & the economy go on. At this moment there are 546 confirmed cases of CoronaVirus, with 22 deaths. Think about that!” — Trump in a tweet.

March 10: “And we’re prepared, and we’re doing a great job with it. And it will go away. Just stay calm. It will go away.” — Trump after meeting with Republican senators.

A day later, on March 11, the WHO declared the global outbreak a pandemic.


Gallup Poll 3/24:

Trump's response to the novel coronavirus pandemic may be behind his higher overall approval rating. Americans give the president generally positive reviews for his handling of the situation, with 60% approving and 38% disapproving.

We have got the leader we deserve.  Sad, sad, sad.
Luckily, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
The secret of happiness is having low expectations.

JohnRoberts

Re: covid politics
« Reply #48 on: April 01, 2020, 02:47:35 PM »
I perceive a subtle shift in the health care advice messaging, where it previously was trying to project optimism, there is a more serious tone now warning about trouble ahead. I still can't read minds but this may be an attempt to scare the public into better behavior following the health advice about social distancing. 

One glaring example of kids behaving badly a group of UT students chartered a plane to Mexico for spring break and so far 28 of 70 have already tested positive for COVID19.... Not showing very good judgement and selfish ignoring the harm they can bring upon others.

JR 
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

dmp

Re: covid politics
« Reply #49 on: April 01, 2020, 03:01:00 PM »
Is there truth to the reports that Trump is denying help to states and Governors that he doesn't like (or do not treat him well).
Including denying medical equipment to states on his bad list?


crazydoc

Re: covid politics
« Reply #50 on: April 01, 2020, 03:15:14 PM »
I perceive a subtle shift in the health care advice messaging, where it previously was trying to project optimism, there is a more serious tone now warning about trouble ahead.
JR
It's not subtle. The  s h i t  has hit the fan and there's no getting around it, and his medical and other advisors have told him he'd better get real or he'll be known as the president who destroyed the country. Not that he cares about the country, only himself.
Luckily, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
The secret of happiness is having low expectations.

JohnRoberts

Re: covid politics
« Reply #51 on: April 01, 2020, 03:27:01 PM »
Is there truth to the reports that Trump is denying help to states and Governors that he doesn't like (or do not treat him well).
Including denying medical equipment to states on his bad list?
Unlikely but I suspect some states want more than is reasonable, sooner than reasonable...

Gov Cuomo (NY) and Gov Newsom (CA) have both made positive comments about their dealings with President Trump, neither one of those two are considered friends of the Trump administration.

Gov Whitmer  of MI started off with a rather unfriendly approach to requesting federal aid and during days of back and forth verbal sparring President Trump threatened to withhold aid in response to her attitude, but he ultimately didn't. He approved the federal aid request for MI on Saturday. I doubt she is best buddies with him now, but they are working together for the common good.

JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

JohnRoberts

Re: covid politics
« Reply #52 on: April 01, 2020, 03:28:09 PM »
It's not subtle. The  s h i t  has hit the fan and there's no getting around it, and his medical and other advisors have told him he'd better get real or he'll be known as the president who destroyed the country. Not that he cares about the country, only himself.
Your mind reading does not agree with mine... we are probably both wrong... mind reading is difficult.

JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

crazydoc

Re: covid politics
« Reply #53 on: April 01, 2020, 03:35:33 PM »
Is there truth to the reports that Trump is denying help to states and Governors that he doesn't like (or do not treat him well).
Including denying medical equipment to states on his bad list?

No, it's just his same blowhard rhetoric.

WASHINGTON – President Donald Trump said Friday he has asked Vice President Mike Pence not to call governors he says have not been "appreciative" enough of his efforts on coronavirus – a group of critics that included a governor he referred to only by gender,

"Don't call the woman in Michigan," Trump said at a press conference while discussing Pence's work as head of the White House Coronavirus Task Force.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/03/27/coronavirus-donald-trump-tells-pence-not-call-michigan-governor/2931251001/
Luckily, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
The secret of happiness is having low expectations.

crazydoc

Re: covid politics
« Reply #54 on: April 01, 2020, 03:40:14 PM »
Your mind reading does not agree with mine... we are probably both wrong... mind reading is difficult.

JR

True - we (and lots of others) are just trying to fit the data we get into a cohesive explanation that make sense to us, and might allow us to make some sort of tentative plan for the future.
Luckily, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
The secret of happiness is having low expectations.

dmp

Re: covid politics
« Reply #55 on: April 01, 2020, 04:22:11 PM »
Unlikely but I suspect some states want more than is reasonable, sooner than reasonable...

A Washington Post story reported Florida got several times what asked for while other states got a small fraction. And Trump has said States should try to buy supplies themselves, then the Federal Gov has outbid the states.  It seems like there is some truth to the story.  But Trump seems to know that believing the news reporting is bad for his reign, hence the 'fake news' declarations.



Quote
Gov Cuomo (NY) and Gov Newsom (CA) have both made positive comments about their dealings with President Trump, neither one of those two are considered friends of the Trump administration.


So the bully pulpit is working then? Or are those supposed to be taken as genuine?  Trump said publicly unless Governors treat him nice he won't take the phone call.

Quote
Gov Whitmer  of MI started off with a rather unfriendly approach to requesting federal aid and during days of back and forth verbal sparring President Trump threatened to withhold aid in response to her attitude, but he ultimately didn't. He approved the federal aid request for MI on Saturday. I doubt she is best buddies with him now, but they are working together for the common good.

JR

In what way was she 'unfriendly'? I saw Trump's public attacks on her.  Might not be the best idea idea for a key swing state to let Americans die while playing politics.

If Trump withholds medical supplies from Americans in need, he should be put in jail. It's hard to believe he could threaten that and still have the support of any American.


iturnknobs

Re: covid politics
« Reply #56 on: April 01, 2020, 05:18:56 PM »
I do not follow how state would run out of PPE supplies if stay-at-home order is enacted? It seems that would reduce spread .

Apologies for paraphrasing.
*even if
Hence the capital IF.
Election 2020.  For the people, not the money.

iturnknobs

Re: covid politics
« Reply #57 on: April 01, 2020, 05:28:50 PM »
True - we (and lots of others) are just trying to fit the data we get into a cohesive explanation that make sense to us, and might allow us to make some sort of tentative plan for the future.

Agreed. Not sure why others discredit all those quotes made available directly by the president(must be fake news ;)).Odd how upset people get at others when their chosen leader makes such mishaps. Redirect your frustration to the real issue at hand.
Election 2020.  For the people, not the money.

iturnknobs

Re: covid politics
« Reply #58 on: April 01, 2020, 06:15:21 PM »
Another of those false facts....

President Trump likened the opposition response to his handling of COVID19  "Their new hoax", he did not call the coronavirus a hoax... When claiming facts try to get them straight.


Wouldn't this be downplaying the severity of the situation WHILE sowing division amongst our society? Seems twice as bad to me when put in context.
Election 2020.  For the people, not the money.

kambo

Re: covid politics
« Reply #59 on: April 01, 2020, 06:31:44 PM »
Wouldn't this be downplaying the severity of the situation WHILE sowing division amongst our society? Seems twice as bad to me when put in context.

even though i hate the way CNN putting the news, they are always extremely sited, and
they are master of showing one side of the story in a fashionable way. in which they keep them paying hundreds of million$  in lawsuit settlements, i have no idea where they are getting that much settlement money from! hope u r not donating  ;)
FOX is as bad as CNN... may be even worst, i cant stand their TV hosts! but i check boths sides on every single news headline!

i agree, its twice as bad for the country!


 

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