covid politics

JohnRoberts said:

Politics is what politicians do... for better and worse, mostly worse.
JR

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nice
+1

JohnRoberts said:

I am not sure I want to know, but does delaying the vote, help the democrats?

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I wondered about the logic of it also, but generally restricting the vote helps Republicans.
In this case also, cities seem to be having the most difficulty with in person voting today with the pandemic - and cities lean Democratic.

Politics is what politicians do... for better and worse, mostly worse.

JR

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Well, remember that in the future when the tide turns the other way.  I expect there will be significant blowback considering the extreme actions Trump and the Republican party have taken in the past decade.

crazydoc said:

Any reliable documentation, or just more conspiracy bullsh it?

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There are too many conspiracies surrounding this COVID outbreak to list them all... no I do not deal in conspiracy theories (not on purpose)

The WHO appears to have consistently touted the Chinese party line, ignoring evidence of human to human transmission, including reports from Taiwan (who isn't a country according to China) who experienced infected health care workers.

I even repeated the bad information from WHO here, saying this wasn't a pandemic.... before it became irrefutable.

The US who is a major funding supporter of the WHO (UN) is already looking into congressional investigations. It's OK I can wait (I hope), but I don't trust China as far as I can throw them.

To dissect the political angles, POTUS is blaming China and WHO for understating the severity of the COVID outbreak, while the opposition is blaming POTUS for under-reacting. So yes there is some political tension and whataboutism...

I was watching the same early news reports (including WHO statements) and anybody who says this pandemic was immediately obvious, is smarter than me. 

JR

PS: my search turns up mostly right leaning sources, so I'll let you do your own search, or just ignore me.

JohnRoberts said:

@ iturnwhatever.... this was probably decided on points of law not fairness.

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JohnRoberts said:

Calling people names just hardens their positions and closes their minds to new thoughts.


JR

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JohnRoberts said:

lets stick to facts....  and not get personal, while that is an early sign of losing any debate.

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I can't help that the selfish acts being described fall in the hand of Republicans.

OK I am getting a sense of the political tension here (not here but Wisconsin)... pretty much the same tired old screed about voter suppression vs. vote fraud. (again?)

The political apparatchiks on both sides are already maneuvering for Nov... 

Be safe and drive by, this will be back, again and again.

JR

PS: I finally figured out who President Trumps blowhardism reminds me of... apparently he sees it too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGDyubi5eEE

So what happened today? 
Trump fired yet another IG, this time because he was afraid the guy was not sleazy enough to handle the stimulus package in a way that would suitably benefit Trump and his cronies. 
We learned that Peter Navarro wrote up two memos, one as early as late January, detailing the potential havoc the coronavirus could wreak, and recommending the govt. stock up on PPE and other medical gear in preparation--something that Trump chose not to bother with until mid-March, when the crisis was well under way. 
Meanwhile, Trump's press secretary who never held a single press conference is out (who cares?  She never did anything anyway.)
And the acting Navy Secretary (because no one who will work for Trump can stand up to Senate confirmation, apparently) is out on his ear because he couldn't help but make a complete ass of himself.

And people in Wisconsin are risking infection and worse to go vote because Republicans and our hyper-partisan, far-right Supreme Court majority see this as a great opportunity for some vote suppression. 

scott2000 said:

Derbyshire police urge people not to visit Peak District under coronavirus lockdown rules

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHNxDzLsPeg

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Doesn't make much sense. People visiting nature while keeping a good distance from each other is actually encouraged by the government here in Germany...

I am still sore from extended mountain bike tours I made last weekend. The most (and really only) critical points for infection for me are visiting grocery stores, where many people congregate, touch the same surfaces, breath in air that does not circulate a lot etc...

dmp said:

Well, remember that in the future when the tide turns the other way.  I expect there will be significant blowback considering the extreme actions Trump and the Republican party have taken in the past decade.

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They are doing all they can to stave off that inevitable future. But eventually the day will come when they will be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

hodad said:

So what happened today? 

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In order to not "repost" this entire thread... You can't make this stuff up. SMH. Speak up. Speak out. Hopefully there is not a "lockdown" for our nation's general election. I fear the Republicans sense they've got a "tool" in their pocket. It's already been used once and it would appear the public is not going to raise up. What will it take? I fear that people are willing to test the answer of that question. I will never leave my money in the northwoods of Wisconsin while snowmobiling ever again. Beyond my vote, it the only recourse I have.

scott2000 said:

That's a sinister sounding way of putting it.  Not sure why I can imagine a James Bond villain or Dr. Evil petting a cat when I read some comments...

"wait until everyone's out of work and we'll see how great you're doing" ...etc.....

Let me ask you, how would you feel  if that comment you just made was coming from China? Seriously? I'm actually being serious. How would you feel? We're all in this together right? 

I'm not implying anything at all. I'm just asking if it makes you feel good to hear something like that coming from someone other than your own... Just curious....

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My comment has nothing to do with the coronavirus crisis and everything with the pain and suffering greedy a-holes, confused ideologues and evil demagogues have brought to the world. I am not talking about good and decent people (some of whom I know personally), who have been mislead time and time again to vote for these charlatans, but the evil machination that is the right wing in business, politics and media, especially in the US.

I don't make these comments about China because they never had a democracy that slowly, piece by piece, got damaged by bad people.

But in the US, there's hope and historical precedent. Slavery was ended in the 19th century, monopolies were busted in the early 20th century, equality was restored in the later part of the first half of the 20th century, segragation was ended and voting rights strengthened etc. The neoliberal era will end, dangerous digital media will be regulated, right wing politicians and justices will be sent packing, climate change will be adressed. Bad ideas will go where they belong, to the garbage heap of history.

So, you see, nothing sinister about it. Just hope and change.

scott2000 said:

So what is your answer? Doesn't matter how "You" see things in this question I asked....

How would it make you feel? I'm sure China doesn't see things the way "you" do about them....

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Since I didn't make the comment "wait until everyone's out of work and we'll see how great you're doing" and would not make such a comment, why would don't ask whomever made that comment?

living sounds said:

Doesn't make much sense. People visiting nature while keeping a good distance from each other is actually encouraged by the government here in Germany...

I am still sore from extended mountain bike tours I made last weekend. The most (and really only) critical points for infection for me are visiting grocery stores, where many people congregate, touch the same surfaces, breath in air that does not circulate a lot etc...

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I saw a report that French officials in Paris were prohibiting exercising outdoors (like jogging).

This does not seem like risky behavior if you maintain safe spacing.

JR 

So Trump apparently disposed of 7 IGs.  Because Trump needs people who will do his bidding and turn a blind eye to his corruption and incompetence.  That's important when you're trying to become President-For-Life. 

scott2000 said:

If China were to say this about Germany, how would you feel?

Sorry if I wasn't specific enough or confused the question by lumping it in with other things I likened to fictional villains...

So honestly, nothing weird about my question, just curiosity,,,, How would you feel ?

You don't have to answer that....  it obviously wouldn't  matter.....would  it?

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It wouldn't make much sense WRT Germany. Unlike the UK we never followed the US full-on on the path of neoliberalism. And if someone from China were to say "tax evading billionaires and manipulative rightwing politicians in Germany will get what's coming to them", I would tend to agree.

scott2000 said:

Thanks!

You guys and gals (sorry ...haven't learned the new terms yet but them too...with love)  haven't done too shabby yourself...... ;D

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I'm really only focused so much on the US in these discussions because the rest of the world tends to follow. And probably because contrasts are so stark and so very obvious, on every level. You just cannot make this up, e.g. mild-mannered, intellectual, squeaky-clean Obama vs., you know, Trump. It's positively cartoonish.

A lot bad to say about Obama (e.g. indiscriminatly drone murdering people without any legal or even moral justification) , sadly not the things the right wing is raving about.


Btw. do any of the US commentators object to devastating economical sanctions on Iran that multiplies the already desastrous suffering of totally unrelated citizens, that are often suppressed by their own leaders. I personally know reports of the devastating consequences, but the public in which name it happens, just doesn´t seem to be aware?
No media coverage, etc.
It´s so wrong.
EDIT:No accusational question towards you, may sound like it due to phrasing, just interested in your perception!

We can speak about Germany´s dark sides too, I just didn´t suppose that much intrest in that...

scott2000 said:

Nah... Dark Techno maybe..... It's the best from there.....
and maybe some dark beer...

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Hard to get good dark beer in Germany (i tried for years at the musik messe). Best I could do was Alt bier that was better than pilsners but lacking IMO.

JR

scott2000 said:

It's funny....maybe sad, but , that 24 pack of variety beers from Germany I received as a gift in recent past had a bunch of Helles beers and I was hesitant to drink them because I ASSumed it was like Devil's beer or something....Was a bit weird that there were so many of them...lol

Probably my religious background......

But they were actually really good.... My Brother in Law  told me what it meant when I regifted him some.........  I guess I was too lazy to look myself...... :-[

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Erdinger (German) has some nice beers, use to drink in pubs/London,
from the tap... pretty amazing. extremely foggy,
almost like crazy light show ! end up keep ordering! end up laging  ;D ;D ;D

JohnRoberts said:

@ iturnwhatever.... this was probably decided on points of law not fairness.

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Ha, ha  ha ha ha ha ha ha HA!  Oh man, that made my day!

…the dissent refers to voters who have not yet received their absentee ballots. But even in an ordinary election, voters who request an absentee ballot at the deadline for requesting ballots (which was this past Friday in this case) will usually receive their ballots on the day before or day of the election, which in this case would be today or tomorrow. The plaintiffs put forward no probative evidence in the District Court that these voters here would be in a substantially different position from late-requesting voters in other Wisconsin elections with respect to the timing of their receipt of absentee ballots.

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You know, why should this election DURING A F'ING PANDEMIC be any different than any other election?  This is the legal equivalent of plugging one's ear and yelling, "LALLALALALALALA".

This was about one thing:  suppressing voter turnout in order to hold a conservative majority on WI's Supreme Court. 

In completely unrelated news, published in the Madison Journal of Completely Obvious Side-Effects of Trying to Hold an Election During a Pandemic News:

The day before a controversial spring election amid a global health crisis, some Wisconsin voters say they still haven’t received the absentee ballots they requested some two weeks ago.

With the Friday deadline for requesting an absentee ballot now passed, voters still waiting on their ballots face a choice: Either risk their health and go to the polls Tuesday or hope their ballots haven’t been lost and will arrive at their homes Tuesday in time to fill them out and get them postmarked by 8 p.m.

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Who could have foreseen this?

cyrano said:

How would the US react if China offered to send "expertise" if this had happened in the US first?

The only thing the US restrictions on Iran have accomplished, is a failure of moderate politics, freeing the path to more extremism. Just like in Iraq, the US creates terrorism, leading to millions and millions of fugitives. Just average people like you and me, fleeing their country because of violence and extremism.

But that's a picture you can only paint if you actually know some people from/in Iran, Syria and some other places and don't get your "info" from Fox news or worse.

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https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11106235/iran-blames-coronavirus-outbreak-us-biological-attack-death-toll-lockdown-cities/  "IRAN's top general claimed today the global coronavirus outbreak was the result of a US biological warfare attack on China. "
https://www.newsweek.com/iran-back-china-calls-us-coronavirus-1493041 "Iran has backed China's calls to investigate yet unfounded claims of the United States being the origin of the new coronavirus as an international blame game worsened over a pandemic that has"

https://www.dailywire.com/news/shocker-iran-blames-america-and-the-jews-for-coronavirus

"The despotic theocratic regime in Iran, unsurprisingly, is blaming America and the Jews for the coronavirus outbreak in Iran that has now claimed the life of the former Iranian ambassador to Syria as well as an adviser to Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khameini. "

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/03/19/iran-irgc-coronavirus-propaganda-blames-america-israel/
"As news of coronavirus cases in Iran spread, the IRGC quickly developed a narrative for the disease. ... Besides trying to blame the United States and Israel for the virus, the IRGC's propaganda "

etc....  are these sources worse than fox news?
Even the Saudis hate the USA these days...
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It isn't fair to characterize an entire nation from a few high profile news makers.

I don't think the Saudis ever did really like the US. Who do you think funded and participated in the 9/11 attack? The Saudis are dependent on the US for military security, so they are allied with us out of necessity. Saudis are currently wrestling with Russia over oil exports market share.  The world is awash in oil with COVID slowdown reducing demand.

JR

PS: I moved this into the political rant thread where it seems more appropriate