hodad

Re: covid politics
« Reply #620 on: June 30, 2020, 02:37:30 PM »
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/29/cdc-says-us-has-way-too-much-virus-to-control-pandemic-as-cases-surge-across-country.html

This is frightening.  This is infuriating.  This should never have happened in this country.  I do not believe this would have happened if pretty much any other candidate in the 2016 field had been elected president--R or D.  Let's ignore his stubborness, his obstinacy, his short attention span and focus on what a horrible gambler he is. 

A friend of mine spent several years making her living as a poker player, & we spent a good bit of time discussing the game.  One of the biggest takeaways I had is that you don't bet on hunches or emotions, or what you want to happen--you bet on the math.  You may win, you may lose, but in the long run playing the odds, playing table position, etc. is how you win. 

Trump has consistently made choices in the COVID disaster not based on science but based on his "hunches" (COVID is like the flu, it will go away in hot weather, HCQ is a wonder drug, etc.) as well as desired outcome (he wanted the country to reopen, so it  was okay to reopen--even though it wasn't.)  Throw in his ignoring science (about mask wearing) because he didn't want his makeup to rub off on his mask (or some other vanity-related reason), and you get one of the hugest failures of leadership in this country's history. 

I'm not saying this as pro-Dem or anti- Repub--I'm simply anti-Trump here.  Jeb Bush would have been an order of magnitude better in this crisis than Trump.  Probably even Rubio or Cruz would have done a better job than Trump has.  The current push by certain Republicans to override Trump's anti-mask message shows how desperate even they are to do something to make things better.  Trump's idiotic policies are killing Americans, playing havoc with our economy, weakening the country's position on the global stage, making our country an object of pity and/or ridicule in other countries. 

It didn't have to be this way.


crazydoc

Re: covid politics
« Reply #621 on: June 30, 2020, 06:00:09 PM »
It didn't have to be this way.
Like I said:
Well, it looks like the pandemic is out of control (just my uninformed opinion.) The stupidity and lack of self control of people (all the way to the top), and politicizing the mask/mitigation measures seem to be the main factors. Hop on for the ride, the sh!tstorm special is leaving the station.
It's our own fault: "The gov'mint cain't tell me what to do - I'm a 'Murican!" If enough folks climb out of that basket of deplorables, maybe we can get rid of at least one plague.
Luckily, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
The secret of happiness is having low expectations.

crazydoc

Re: covid politics
« Reply #622 on: June 30, 2020, 06:33:17 PM »
A flu virus is fast and simple.
No.
Severe influenza infection represents a leading cause of global morbidity and mortality. Although influenza is primarily considered a viral infection that results in pathology limited to the respiratory system, clinical reports suggest that influenza infection is frequently associated with a number of clinical syndromes that involve organ systems outside the respiratory tract. A comprehensive MEDLINE literature review of articles pertaining to extra‐pulmonary complications of influenza infection, using organ‐specific search terms, yielded 218 articles including case reports, epidemiologic investigations, and autopsy studies that were reviewed to determine the clinical involvement of other organs. The most frequently described clinical entities were viral myocarditis and viral encephalitis. Recognition of these extra‐pulmonary complications is critical to determining the true burden of influenza infection and initiating organ‐specific supportive care.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5596521/

Quote
The testing of sewage seems to indicate that the virus was already everywhere before anyone took notice.  I also have the idea that incubation time could be much longer.
Where do you get those ideas?
Luckily, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
The secret of happiness is having low expectations.

L´Andratté

Re: covid politics
« Reply #623 on: June 30, 2020, 07:02:22 PM »
US buys up world supply of remdesivir...
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/30/us-buys-up-world-stock-of-key-covid-19-drug
If true, the rest of the world will love US for it. :-X

More remdesivir cannot be produced, because that would infringe on patent law.
And what in this world could be more urgent than adhereing to patent law? ;)
"Why not get an assistant to work the faders? Real vintage! And maybe cheaper... ;)"

pucho812

Re: covid politics
« Reply #624 on: June 30, 2020, 07:21:43 PM »
here is what is going on lately in California,  Our governor spent a billion dollars on n95 masks. We never received the masks. The Chinese automaker who was going to make and supply them couldn't do it. they returned 1/4 of the billion dollars and the rest  has whereabouts that are unknown. I want my money back.  I am not sure if I mentioned that last time or if anyone really cares.  but worth mentioning.
We opened things recently. Restaurants at limited capacity,  Museums were open,  bars were allowed to be back in swing. Things were fine for a few weeks. During the same weeks we had massive amounts of crowds gathering both at bars and at protests. Both groups of people at times were far from social distancing and far from wearing masks. I saw the protests first hands when they walked by the studio, the majority were less then 6 feet apart, and most were not wearing any masks. The rioters were the same, no mask, no social distancing.   The governor this past Sunday,  suggested 14 counties in California need to curb the open bars and such. Of the 14, 6 had to mandatory shut it down because the bars caused a spike in numbers. L.A. county where I live is one of those places.  Now it went further down to a county wide shut down of all beaches, bike paths, trails, and everywhere else people will go for the July 4th weekend. The county cites the governors concerns. Our Mayor of l.a. further  cracked down and said no  public fireworks displays, along side the rest. What every single decision maker in California, did not do, is  put any blame on the protests going on.  That somehow you cannot get covid from going to a protest.  But you can sure get it from going to the pub or beach. As usual I find this to be such a joke.   Covid is serious, at least they could be honest and say, you might have passed it along when you were protesting, rioting and or looting. That is fair to say. It could have happened no more or less than it could have happened at the local pub you may have gone to.

What  really gets me is how they make that if you do action A like go to a pub, you can get covid, but if you do action B like  go shopping, you can't get covid. If you go to the beach and lie down you can get covid, but if you go to the beach and exercise, you can't get covid.   You can go fish at the beach and not get covid but only if you stand up and not sit down. They have no real clue out here, the just want to control every little aspect of our lives. I used to say I didn't vote for them, but even that doesn't bring joy any more.

So I propose, the following. According to the decisions makers out here, you cannot catch covid at Home Depot and target. So lets turn Home Depot and target into voting places, that way we can all go vote come November. We should also turn a section of Home Depot into a pub so you can go get your drinks without worry of covid.

For me I am pretty homebody when I am not at the studio. It's fairly easy for me to avoid the pub and such. But I do like to get my fishing on and be out in nature which I am now not allowed to do because I may catch covid from good knows what\ all from being on a path with others who are farther than 6 ft apart. 

You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

crazydoc

Re: covid politics
« Reply #625 on: June 30, 2020, 07:45:27 PM »
You'd think it would be easy enough (and maybe the contact tracers are doing this) to ask each new case "Were you at a protest?", "Were you at a bar or club?", "Were you at a big box store?", "Were you at the beach?" in the last two weeks. Then publish the data so we can all see what might be driving this surge.
But apparently contact tracing is FUBAR, like everything else associated with covid.
Luckily, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
The secret of happiness is having low expectations.

pucho812

Re: covid politics
« Reply #626 on: June 30, 2020, 08:03:16 PM »
You'd think it would be easy enough (and maybe the contact tracers are doing this) to ask each new case "Were you at a protest?", "Were you at a bar or club?", "Were you at a big box store?", "Were you at the beach?" in the last two weeks. Then publish the data so we can all see what might be driving this surge.
But apparently contact tracing is FUBAR, like everything else associated with covid.

Well you would think they would be honest and say "we don't know" or say "you might have caught it when you were protesting."   Why can't they just admit that is a potential cause of the virus? a large crowd is a large crowd regardless of where you are at.
I don't care much for our governor, I think he is a maroon, a nincompoop. I also think the same of my mayor and for the same reasons, they often open their mouth and say what they are thinking without thinking.  they have no real value then sucking off the government tit for a paycheck of which we provide the milk.
Now I get the safety thing, I am not pushing to go drink at a pub anytime soon.  But I do think we should be able to hike and bike with proper social distancing rules and masks without major issue.  seems to me it ism safer than  a large crowd at a protest.
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

crazydoc

Re: covid politics
« Reply #627 on: June 30, 2020, 08:14:52 PM »
I agree - outdoor activities, especially those done alone or at good distance from others, should be left alone. Have they been closed in CA, or in LA anyway?

I'd also add that family gatherings are also a very likely sources of new cases and should unfortunately be discouraged and contact traced.
I was at Walmart today - CA's mandatory face covering has certainly made a difference. Now instead of 9 in 10 without masks, there are only 5 in 10 without them, even though the sign at the door says you must wear a face covering when shopping in the store.

 A 50% illiteracy rate is not bad for my county.
Luckily, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
The secret of happiness is having low expectations.

pucho812

Re: covid politics
« Reply #628 on: June 30, 2020, 08:26:24 PM »
I agree - outdoor activities, especially those done alone or at good distance from others, should be left alone. Have they been closed in CA, or in LA anyway?

I'd also add that family gatherings are also a very likely sources of new cases and should unfortunately be discouraged and contact traced.
I was at Walmart today - CA's mandatory face covering has certainly made a difference. Now instead of 9 in 10 without masks, there are only 5 in 10 without them, even though the sign at the door says you must wear a face covering when shopping in the store.

 A 50% illiteracy rate is not bad for my county.

yes they were closed for some time, then they reopened  the outdoor stuff. Now they closed them again because of covid. While I get their intentions and all  they surely don't comprehend  things. being far apart in nature should not be punished for close together at a bar or protest.
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

JohnRoberts

Re: covid politics
« Reply #629 on: July 01, 2020, 12:25:00 AM »
sounds like some drama... hope this scares more people into safer behavior....

Wash your hands, wear a mask when in public, and practice social distancing.

JR

 

Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.


Script

Re: covid politics
« Reply #630 on: July 01, 2020, 12:44:30 AM »
Quote
Now I get the safety thing, I am not pushing to go drink at a pub anytime soon.  But I do think we should be able to hike and bike with proper social distancing rules and masks without major issue.  seems to me it ism safer than  a large crowd at a protest.
For the time being, majority of recent cases in Japan are infections traceable to host and hostess bars in red light districts, group restaurant visits, and family internal transmissions. Naturally, infections in puplic spaces (hike & bike) with proper physical distancing (longer slipstream in case of biking) are difficult to trace and therefore tend to show up as 'untraceable' -- but for now, in Japan, such cases are not the norm. Outdoors in general seems less 'dangerous' than anything indoors (closed spaces).

Outdoor sports/activities are also good for mental health -- so no reason to not allow, I'd guess. However, problems arise when all former night owls, pub dwellers, couch potatoes and gym goers all of a sudden all start jogging outdoors in the same public spaces all at once and all at the same time...

CJ

Re: covid politics
« Reply #631 on: July 01, 2020, 03:26:49 AM »
use your survival instincts, which means don't count on anybody but yourself.

trust your intuition, be a lone wolf and hibernate, live like a hermit, quit having unprotected sex with multiple partners at the same time,  ;D
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so nobody else can!
Frank's Tube Page: www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/vs.html
Guitar Amps: http://bmamps.com/Tech_sch.html

cyrano

Re: covid politics
« Reply #632 on: July 01, 2020, 06:31:52 AM »
No.
Severe influenza infection represents a leading cause of global morbidity and mortality. Although influenza is primarily considered a viral infection that results in pathology limited to the respiratory system, clinical reports suggest that influenza infection is frequently associated with a number of clinical syndromes that involve organ systems outside the respiratory tract. A comprehensive MEDLINE literature review of articles pertaining to extra‐pulmonary complications of influenza infection, using organ‐specific search terms, yielded 218 articles including case reports, epidemiologic investigations, and autopsy studies that were reviewed to determine the clinical involvement of other organs. The most frequently described clinical entities were viral myocarditis and viral encephalitis. Recognition of these extra‐pulmonary complications is critical to determining the true burden of influenza infection and initiating organ‐specific supportive care.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5596521/

That's true. But it's not the main argument. A lot of diseases can manifest themselves in other organs. But that's not the point.

The point is COVID, as a pandemic factor, is slower to spread than most other virii. I hope you're not denying that...

Quote
Where do you get those ideas?

From the people who report them. It took a while before they realised they had the data all along, since sewage sample are archived on at least a daily basis.

The first analysis dates back months. It was in The Netherlands, I think that someone put it on their daily checklist. Other European countries followed.

Of course, this doesn't come up on Fox. But even some MSM as reported it. Not on the main page, tho.
Why is it people love to believe and hate to know?

JohnRoberts

Re: covid politics
« Reply #633 on: July 01, 2020, 09:36:12 AM »
use your survival instincts, which means don't count on anybody but yourself.

trust your intuition, be a lone wolf and hibernate, live like a hermit, quit having unprotected sex with multiple partners at the same time,  ;D
I have been sheltering in place pretty much all century.....

JR

PS: I am not a fan of conspiracy theories but this is the "politics" thread.  ::) There is a reportedly a recent lower threshold criteria used for "probable" covid cases being added to confirmed case numbers.  I can understand scaring people into behaving, especially when they demonstrate that they aren't behaving.  Caveat Lector...  We are still in the middle of this scrum so not time to relax yet. 
« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 09:47:04 AM by JohnRoberts »
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

crazydoc

Re: covid politics
« Reply #634 on: July 01, 2020, 01:51:50 PM »
The point is COVID, as a pandemic factor, is slower to spread than most other virii. I hope you're not denying that...
If by slow you mean  an average of 5 days to onset of symptoms (though possibly contagious 2 to 3 days before that - called asymptomatic spread), as opposed to  2 to 3 days for influenza, I guess you could call it slow. However "slow virus" is a medical term with a completely different meaning and different pathogens, with a months to years time period from infection to onset of disease.

Quote
From the people who report them. It took a while before they realised they had the data all along, since sewage sample are archived on at least a daily basis.

The first analysis dates back months. It was in The Netherlands, I think that someone put it on their daily checklist. Other European countries followed.

Of course, this doesn't come up on Fox. But even some MSM as reported it. Not on the main page, tho.
If you mean that SARS-CoV-2 was found in sewage prior to the onset of the covid-19 pandemic, let's see some data. It's certainly not surprising it's shed in feces and found in sewage now with so many infections. It's one of the reasons I try not to eat sh!t. (When I lived in equatorial Africa a half century ago, I asked the doctor how I got dysentery - he said, and I quote, "From eating sh!t.")
Luckily, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
The secret of happiness is having low expectations.

JohnRoberts

Re: covid politics
« Reply #635 on: July 01, 2020, 02:17:26 PM »
here is what is going on lately in California,  Our governor spent a billion dollars on n95 masks. We never received the masks. The Chinese automaker who was going to make and supply them couldn't do it. they returned 1/4 of the billion dollars and the rest  has whereabouts that are unknown. I want my money back.  I am not sure if I mentioned that last time or if anyone really cares.  but worth mentioning.
I wrote about this at the time (weeks-months ago?)

Gov Newsome found out that he had placed a huge mask order with a start-up merchant who was aligned with the wrong political party (there are always a number of carpet baggers trying to capitalize on crisis driven markets, especially if they have government experience-connections), so he cancelled that order and cut a fast panic deal with BYD (chinese electric vehicle manufacturer) for >$1B worth of KN95 (Chinese version of N95) masks. BYD did not have the required NIOSH certification at the time so could not fulfill the order until dotting all the I's and crossing the t's (apparently the hang up was a factory visit/certification for the Chinese facility). BYD says it's a minor paperwork issue and that approval will come soon.  They are already selling lots of masks to other markets/customers.


CDC tested BYD masks and they delivered 99.78 filtering effectivity  so seems well above 95% spec.   
       BYD Precision Manufacture Co., Ltd.   DG3101   GB2626   99.78

CDC lists NIOSH approved n95 vendors including BYD
      BYD Precision Manufacture Co., Ltd.  86-752-511-8888   DE2322   84A-9221

CA could probably negotiate a lower price now as this supply chain is not as tight as it was months ago... but true NIOSH approved n95/kn95 masks are still selling for premiums to consumers... spit masks OTOH are down in the $0.50 ea range.

Unclear what is going on with CA, but what else is new.

JR 
Quote

We opened things recently. Restaurants at limited capacity,  Museums were open,  bars were allowed to be back in swing. Things were fine for a few weeks. During the same weeks we had massive amounts of crowds gathering both at bars and at protests. Both groups of people at times were far from social distancing and far from wearing masks. I saw the protests first hands when they walked by the studio, the majority were less then 6 feet apart, and most were not wearing any masks. The rioters were the same, no mask, no social distancing.   The governor this past Sunday,  suggested 14 counties in California need to curb the open bars and such. Of the 14, 6 had to mandatory shut it down because the bars caused a spike in numbers. L.A. county where I live is one of those places.  Now it went further down to a county wide shut down of all beaches, bike paths, trails, and everywhere else people will go for the July 4th weekend. The county cites the governors concerns. Our Mayor of l.a. further  cracked down and said no  public fireworks displays, along side the rest. What every single decision maker in California, did not do, is  put any blame on the protests going on.  That somehow you cannot get covid from going to a protest.  But you can sure get it from going to the pub or beach. As usual I find this to be such a joke.   Covid is serious, at least they could be honest and say, you might have passed it along when you were protesting, rioting and or looting. That is fair to say. It could have happened no more or less than it could have happened at the local pub you may have gone to.

What  really gets me is how they make that if you do action A like go to a pub, you can get covid, but if you do action B like  go shopping, you can't get covid. If you go to the beach and lie down you can get covid, but if you go to the beach and exercise, you can't get covid.   You can go fish at the beach and not get covid but only if you stand up and not sit down. They have no real clue out here, the just want to control every little aspect of our lives. I used to say I didn't vote for them, but even that doesn't bring joy any more.

So I propose, the following. According to the decisions makers out here, you cannot catch covid at Home Depot and target. So lets turn Home Depot and target into voting places, that way we can all go vote come November. We should also turn a section of Home Depot into a pub so you can go get your drinks without worry of covid.

For me I am pretty homebody when I am not at the studio. It's fairly easy for me to avoid the pub and such. But I do like to get my fishing on and be out in nature which I am now not allowed to do because I may catch covid from good knows what\ all from being on a path with others who are farther than 6 ft apart.
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

cyrano

Re: covid politics
« Reply #636 on: July 01, 2020, 10:31:24 PM »
If by slow you mean  an average of 5 days to onset of symptoms (though possibly contagious 2 to 3 days before that - called asymptomatic spread), as opposed to  2 to 3 days for influenza, I guess you could call it slow. However "slow virus" is a medical term with a completely different meaning and different pathogens, with a months to years time period from infection to onset of disease.

That's part of what I mean. Incubation time is longer, but also the spread of the virus is a lot slower.

Quote
If you mean that SARS-CoV-2 was found in sewage prior to the onset of the covid-19 pandemic, let's see some data. It's certainly not surprising it's shed in feces and found in sewage now with so many infections. It's one of the reasons I try not to eat sh!t. (When I lived in equatorial Africa a half century ago, I asked the doctor how I got dysentery - he said, and I quote, "From eating sh!t.")

No, I mean COVID19 was found in sewage samples as early as march 2019 in Europe. Don't remember which country. Earliest human cases were dec 2019 in France, jan 2020 in Belgium.

As I've said before, the transport is still unknown. We know cats, dogs, pigs, mink and a few other species can get infected. I've seen nothing about birds. And if the spread in Europe was already happening in early 2019, what was the transport medium?

Unfortunately, there's no data for sewage outside of Europe, AFAIK.
Why is it people love to believe and hate to know?

CJ

Re: covid politics
« Reply #637 on: July 02, 2020, 02:27:57 AM »
if you put a UV light over your door it will kill the virus and keep out the Jehovah's Witnesses, 
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so nobody else can!
Frank's Tube Page: www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/vs.html
Guitar Amps: http://bmamps.com/Tech_sch.html

scott2000

Re: covid politics
« Reply #638 on: July 02, 2020, 07:16:02 AM »
Quote

 We should also turn a section of Home Depot into a pub




iturnknobs

Re: covid politics
« Reply #639 on: July 02, 2020, 07:48:51 AM »
I'm back. Had to step away to watch all my rants come true. For those who are comparing protests to recreation.... STOP. Those protests couldn't be put on hold. Your trip to the beach can. There's a difference between change that has been needed for well over one hundred years and your snowflake needs to go out for recreation. I stayed home for almost 3 months and it paid off. The numbers in Illinois are very good. Look at the daily statistics vs. other states(especially red ones). Chicago is the 3rd largest city in the US.  Its protests were equally as large. Many, if not most, wore masks. We have NOT had a resurgence in Illinois. The protests were 4 weeks ago. The protests that people should be upset about were all the freedom screamers that participated openly inside their state capitols while not wearing masks while our country was trying to get a handle in this epidemic. Virus mitigation behavior was VISIBLY different at each of these events. Not only are the protests different, but most of the George Floyd protesters have not been brainwashed into believing this whole thing is a HOAX. Right-wingers who supported "opening" the country did NOT wear masks or practice social distancing because of a political ideology while trying to prove a point. Thanks for proving MY point. The head of said party is a moron that is making people sick and causing them to die. Why must humans touch the hot stove for themselves.  We need many more people to die to wisen up society and vote this fool out...  because I guess the white power video link via Twitter just isn't enough. I wish you poorly 'Murica. Freedom. How's your AR-15 at the Capitol building working out now? WOW. Death tolls follow case number surges.

*I do believe outdoor activities are safe with proper social distancing but people are not taking this thing seriously, hence(I believe), the over stringent rules on recreation.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 08:10:53 AM by iturnknobs »
Election 2020.  For the people, not the money.


 

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