covid politics

hodad said:

It's also not the only issue at hand.  As doctors and scientists learn more about COVID, they're seeing more and more evidence of long term health issues (lung and kidney isssues, cognitive impairment, etc. ), and that becomes even more of a concern as cases among young people rise.  Yes, lower death rates are great (although likely to rise somewhat in the coming weeks), but even if the pandemic were handled perfectly from this point, the after-effects of COVID will reverberate for decades.

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Yes, the disease will medically ruin a lot more lives than just the dead and their loved ones. And the social and economic impacts of this will change the future.

But the president said yesterday that it's all under control, so I'm not worried about a thing.

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Whew, that's a relief!

hodad said:

Bill Clinton started a program that released military surplus to police forces for free--all the police departments had to do was pay for the item to get to them from wherever it was.  This might not have been the beginning of the militarization, but at the least it was a very significant turning point.

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OK there you go, thanks.  I wasn't exactly sure of which administration started this particular program. 

crazydoc said:

Yes, the disease will medically ruin a lot more lives than just the dead and their loved ones. And the social and economic impacts of this will change the future.Whew, that's a relief!

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This is something I'm concerned about.    There are already cases of HMO's not paying for after care services required for covid survivors.   

scott2000 said:

Can we see some "for instances"?

Wealth distribution/inequality
Blacks vs white pay...etc?

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Scott,
in a list of the wealthiest countries, the US generally ranks the lowest in terms of health care, minimum wage, minimum paid annual leave, maternity leave, unemployment/disability  benefit, distribution of wealth...

I could post graphs and statistics if it helps, but the info is out there to find easily enough. 
All I'm saying is that a social safety net does *not* equal communism. Any of the members on here living in Europe could attest to that.

Asking anyone in the UK to get rid of our NHS would likely get the same response as asking to abolish votes for women. 
The same in France, Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden...

scott2000 said:

The US is magnitudes  the size and population of the UK

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UK pop = about 67 million
An order of magnitude (X10) greater?  670 million.
US population:  about 330 million

So it's fair to say the US is NOT magnitudes greater in population than the UK. 

As far size in square miles?  That's another matter. 

Regardless, the greater population of the US is just an excuse (one of many weak ones) that anti-universal healthcare types use to attack M4A and other similar programs.  That the ACA has performed as well as it has in spite of all the money and effort put into attacking it is a pretty good indication that a single-payer system or something similar would succeed here. 

No system can't be improved in some way, but I don't know anyone here in the UK who's had a problem getting the care they need.
Personally speaking, having spent 2 decades in the US I would *never* want to go back into  that system.    Not being able to afford insurance can be a nightmare. 

Apparently the competition is intense for this year's Darwin Awards:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/patient-dies-after-going-to-covid-party-thought-it-was-a-hoax-official/ar-BB16CCy8?ocid=bingcovid

crazydoc said:

Apparently the competition is intense for this year's Darwin Awards:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/patient-dies-after-going-to-covid-party-thought-it-was-a-hoax-official/ar-BB16CCy8?ocid=bingcovid

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Yup, wear a mask, wash your hands, and don't try to catch COVID.....

JR

crazydoc said:

Apparently the competition is intense for this year's Darwin Awards:

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It's still really sad though.  Lots of other young people who believed the same are now in quite serious condition according to the head nurse from that hospital. 
I don't agree with, but can understand younger folks having a more cavalier attitude towards social distancing - I too felt more invincible 30 years ago -  but where does the mindset that this is a hoax come from? 

scott2000 said:

I do wish it were some universal thing on many issues... Our healthcare stuff is weird....

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Hey Scott, I noticed you'd edited out the bit of reply here regarding your own current situation with health insurance costs.
I just wanted to say that I get it man, I've been there myself.  I  feel really badly for you and anyone else in that situation - especially those with a loved one and a young family to worry about too.  I wish it wasn't like this.
Stay well man.   

scott2000 said:

Yeah, it's not really me I care about bringing attention to.. 

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I guessed that was the case but wanted  to acknowledge it before it went off the radar.

I don't live in the US anymore but there's still a massive piece of my heart still over there - my son and step kids are US citizens.  I suppose I feel I have a big stake in wanting the best for everyone in the US at the moment.

But yep, it'll get worked out

Winston O'Boogie said:

but where does the mindset that this is a hoax come from?

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"It's all under control."  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrEa6JnoL1c

scott2000 said:

I do wish it were some universal thing on many issues... Our healthcare stuff is weird....

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Here is the root of the problem - Senate finance committee hearings on the proposed ACA in 2009 (lobbyist money, money, money as usual). So we got the piece of shit known as Obamacare, no public option (they refused to even discuss it and arrested those who wanted to), better than what we had but still too "socialist" for the oligarchs who are still trying to get rid of it:

It has finally happened right here in the United States. Citizens who believe healthcare is a human right have been arrested and are being processed like criminals through the Southeast District of Columbia police station. Their crime? Asking for single payer healthcare reform – publicly funded, privately delivered healthcare – to be discussed during the Congressional hearings on reform.

Doctors and other single payer activists were handcuffed and went to jail today speaking up for single payer to be at the table in the Senate finance Committee’s roundtable discussion on healthcare access and coverage. In stark contrast, Karen Ignagni, head of the industry lobby group American Health Insurance Plans (AHIP) was escorted into the room like royalty by staff members of the Senate committee. Clearly, the position of the United States Senate is not with the majority of Americans who support a national, public insurance system....
Simply asking to have single payer be included and fully vetted is a crime. Profiting as the for-profit health insurance companies do at the expense of 22,000 American lives every year, however, gets you a run of the table in this healthcare reform discussion. Just ask the Senators who are drafting what this nation’s health system will look like – and watch their behavior today – if you want evidence of how your voice will be heard in the process.

https://www.healthcare-now.org/blog/doctors-single-payer-activists-arrested-make-history-at-senate-finance-roundtable/

crazydoc said:

"It's all under control."  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrEa6JnoL1c

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Yeah I understand that stuff regarding the White House message being "it's all under control"  costing lives by underplaying the severity and risks.  But the mindset of the whole thing being a hoax -  is it a partisan thing?  A flat-earther, tin-foil hat conspiracy type thing?  A common or garden rejection of science in favour of stupidity thing? 

Winston O'Boogie said:

Yeah I understand that stuff regarding the White House message being "it's all under control"  costing lives by underplaying the severity and risks.  But the mindset of the whole thing being a hoax -  is it a partisan thing?  A flat-earther, tin-foil hat conspiracy type thing?  A common or garden rejection of science in favour of stupidity thing?

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My guess is that it's multifactorial, like the things you mention.

Here's a study that posits, in (my) simple terms, that it's the belief of people who don't know how to think.

Abstract

The coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak was labeled a global pandemic by the WHO in March of 2020. During that same month, the number of confirmed cases and the death rate grew exponentially in the United States, creating a serious public-health emergency. Unfortunately, many Americans dismissed the pandemic as a hoax and failed to properly engage in helpful behaviors like social-distancing and increased hand-washing. Here, we examine a disposition—willingness to engage in analytic-thinking—that might predict beliefs that the pandemic is a hoax and failures to change behavior in positive ways. Our results indicate that individuals less willing to engage effortful, deliberative, and reflective cognitive processes were more likely to believe the pandemic was a hoax, and less likely to have recently engaged in social-distancing and hand-washing. We discuss the implications of these results for understanding and addressing the COVID-19 pandemic.

https://psyarxiv.com/m3vth/

crazydoc said:

Here's a study that posits, in (my) simple terms, that it's the belief of people who don't know how to think.

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Thanks.  That study went above and beyond in trying to understand and explain the causation.  I learned quite a lot even on a first read through and it deserves a 2nd and 3rd reading for sure.  Very much appreciated. 

Modern technology, the speed, access, sensory overflow and the resulting compensatory mechanisms, makes it much harder to follow the slower path of analytical thinking. Especially if you lack formal training, live in precarious circumstances and/or are surrounded by like-minded individuals (locally or virtually). Some adjustments are probably necessary...

scott2000 said:

Maybe there's a pill for this

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Not going to be such an easy fix.

living sounds said:

Not going to be such an easy fix.

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Natural selection may help a little.