Do we know who makes these capsules?
« on: April 27, 2020, 05:39:37 AM »
First one I'm wondering about is the K47 copy that used the metal rings instead of the white plastic ones, like the ones from Advanced Audio. Actually, I'm wondering about all of the ones sold by Advanced Audio. I doubt there's any difference in sound or quality between them and the normal 34mm ones with the plastic rings on WGTcenter (even 797's K67 uses the white plastic rings), but I am sort of curious about the other ones, though most of that is because the K47 from AA is 32mm rather than 34mm.

The other ones I'm wondering about are sold here:
https://www.telefunken-elektroakustik.com/shop/parts-accessories/capsules-parts-accessories

In particular I'm interested in knowing about where the small diaphragm capsules come from. I know the edge terminated one is the RK-12, don't know about the centre terminated one, but I'm pretty sure it's just a normal Chinese K67 copy (dunno who makes it though), but I haven't heard anything about the small capsules. I'm guessing they're also cheap Chinese ones given the other 2 sold in the online shop are, and those SDC capsules are also used on the M60 FET, which looks like it's one of the "affordable" mics they make, and given that the Telefunken Alchemy series uses Chinese capsules (the TF47 is definitely using something like the RK47), I doubt they'd go with anything expensive for their affordable SDC (the ELAM 260 uses the same capsules).

Here is where you can look at the frequency response of the SDC capsules:
https://www.telefunken-elektroakustik.com/microphones/m60-master-set


RuudNL

Re: Do we know who makes these capsules?
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2020, 10:11:33 AM »
By the way, strange specification: Output Impedance: 120 dB...  :D
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http://www.vansteenisaudio.nl

Re: Do we know who makes these capsules?
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2020, 11:51:59 AM »
By the way, strange specification: Output Impedance: 120 dB...  :D

The whole thing seems weird. There's no way they have 5 dBA self noise. That seems like the kind of thing a sketch Chinese mic company would write to trick you into buying their stuff. Though Telefunken is charging almost $2000 for mics using RK12 capsules so who knows? Maybe they're selling out.

Avgatzeblouz

Re: Do we know who makes these capsules?
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2020, 12:09:26 PM »
Wait... Are you sure they sell the RK-12, and not a clone made by them ?

Re: Do we know who makes these capsules?
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2020, 12:52:51 PM »
Wait... Are you sure they sell the RK-12, and not a clone made by them ?
It's the RK-12. It shares the exact look and frequency response.

Even if it isn't, it's still a cheap edge terminated capsule that sounds exactly the same and would be built like a K67. it's the same deal as Mic-Parts where they put the electrical tape around the outside, but pictures of the Telefunken TF51 internals show it's the same thing as the edge terminated one sold  by Rayking and Ningbo Shenke. Same colour, same screws, same coloured wires.

https://www.telefunken-elektroakustik.com/microphones/tf51 here's the page with the frequency response, and check their YouTube video showing the AR51 (the name at the time), it shows the RK-12.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmAezKjpR9k It's at about 1:20 in the video.

The TF47 looks like it shares a response with other mics using Chinese K47 capsules too https://www.telefunken-elektroakustik.com/microphones/tf47 I'm not sure how an authentic in mint Neumann K47 capsule would measure, but the response of the TF47 looks a lot like the Advanced Audio CM47ve and CM49, both using Chinese K47 capsules.

There's zero reason for Telefunken to even make clone capsules since they already have the proper types of capsules used in their higher end mics. The only capsules they sell in their online store are their rebranded version of the RK-12, their rebranded K67 copy capsule, and their small diaphragm condenser capsules, which are probably of Chinese origin as well. I'm interested in getting my hands on the capsules, but $175/ea for what are probably Chinese SDC caps is too much for me.

I don't necessarily have an issue with using Chinese capsules, but don't sell me sh*t and tell me it's a Kobe beef. $600-700 would be a reasonable price for their mics using Chinese capsules (they should be trying to compete with Advanced Audio and the like, that's clearly the point of these mics). $2000 is absolutely ridiculous though, I wouldn't pay an extra $1300 just for the Telefunken name. They look like they could be 797audio or similar.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2020, 01:27:19 PM by Icantthinkofaname »

Khron

Re: Do we know who makes these capsules?
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2020, 03:11:22 PM »
I'm going out on a limb here, but i've got a hunch those aren't meant for people who know what they're buying ;D (ie. the good people on this forum, and perhaps others in the same vein) Buuuut that's only speculating...

Pretty sure they're charging that "because they can".

I don't necessarily have an issue with using Chinese capsules, but don't sell me sh*t and tell me it's a Kobe beef. $600-700 would be a reasonable price for their mics using Chinese capsules (they should be trying to compete with Advanced Audio and the like, that's clearly the point of these mics). $2000 is absolutely ridiculous though, I wouldn't pay an extra $1300 just for the Telefunken name. They look like they could be 797audio or similar.
Khron's Cave - Electronics - Audio - Teardowns - Mods - Repairs - Projects - Music - Rants - Shenanigans

Re: Do we know who makes these capsules?
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2020, 04:21:36 PM »
I'm going out on a limb here, but i've got a hunch those aren't meant for people who know what they're buying ;D (ie. the good people on this forum, and perhaps others in the same vein) Buuuut that's only speculating...

Pretty sure they're charging that "because they can".

That's pretty much what I figured. I know Telefunken is a corporation, and the goal is to make as much money as possible, but I'm still a bit disappointed. At least AKG has the sense to price their Perception mics low (I see the P420 go for $200 USD or so). Telefunken absoulutely has the resources to use better capsules than these cheap Chinese ones. I know they don't want to cannibalize their ELAM251 and U47 sales, but I think there are things they could do besides use cheap $30 capsules. They could make the mics have more self noise than their higher end counterparts,  limit polar patterns (3 patterns instead of 9),  or maybe these should've been FET mics with better capsules, like a budget version of a brass C414, or a three pattern mic using the M7 capsule Telefunken has. For that kind of money I'd rather just get an Advanced Audio CM12 and put a CT12 in it. Then put aside the rest, wait a bit, get a used C414 (or Lewtitt LCT640 pre-TS) or sE Electronics 4400a/T2 and put a CT12 in that.

If I ever win the lottery (haha), I can safely say the ELAM251 is off my purchase list now. I'd just commission a good clone out of high quality parts.

I was aware of their mics with Chinese capsules for a while, but I had no idea they were charging that much for one with an RK12. Even the multipattern Copperhead is $1500, the TF47 and TF51 are $1900 each.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2020, 04:28:54 PM by Icantthinkofaname »

Khron

Re: Do we know who makes these capsules?
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2020, 06:26:11 PM »
Reminds me of this "classic"(?) scene: https://youtu.be/MEs5tnbynG0
Khron's Cave - Electronics - Audio - Teardowns - Mods - Repairs - Projects - Music - Rants - Shenanigans

Avgatzeblouz

Re: Do we know who makes these capsules?
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2020, 10:57:01 AM »
That's pretty much what I figured. I know Telefunken is a corporation, and the goal is to make as much money as possible, but I'm still a bit disappointed. At least AKG has the sense to price their Perception mics low (I see the P420 go for $200 USD or so). Telefunken absoulutely has the resources to use better capsules than these cheap Chinese ones. I know they don't want to cannibalize their ELAM251 and U47 sales, but I think there are things they could do besides use cheap $30 capsules. They could make the mics have more self noise than their higher end counterparts,  limit polar patterns (3 patterns instead of 9),  or maybe these should've been FET mics with better capsules, like a budget version of a brass C414, or a three pattern mic using the M7 capsule Telefunken has. For that kind of money I'd rather just get an Advanced Audio CM12 and put a CT12 in it. Then put aside the rest, wait a bit, get a used C414 (or Lewtitt LCT640 pre-TS) or sE Electronics 4400a/T2 and put a CT12 in that.

If I ever win the lottery (haha), I can safely say the ELAM251 is off my purchase list now. I'd just commission a good clone out of high quality parts.

I was aware of their mics with Chinese capsules for a while, but I had no idea they were charging that much for one with an RK12. Even the multipattern Copperhead is $1500, the TF47 and TF51 are $1900 each.

Ok, I understand better. I thought you were talking about the CK-12 type capsule in their C12 and ELAM 251. I would not have been too much surprised, considering how thin their C12 sounds, but I would have been schocked regarding the asking price. I still am, actually :)

Re: Do we know who makes these capsules?
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2020, 01:46:07 AM »
The capsules are probably installed at the same time whatever other parts of the mic are built up by the overseas manufacturer. If they are managing to get the entire mic and psu assembled overseas, maybe it makes sense to limit the parts getting shipped to the overseas factory to just transformers.

I think TelefunkenUSA was using ShuaiYin for their initial RFT line, maybe they never stopped?

No clue about the SDC scenario, but this is a link to the complete SDCs ShuaiYin is making.

A hunch that has a solid chance of being totally wrong.

http://www.shuaiy.com/product02.asp?plt=44&pone=6


rockinrob86

Re: Do we know who makes these capsules?
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2020, 11:20:49 AM »
I don't know where the SDC's come from, but that's the same part that goes into the Badaax SDC mics.


I've tried a few different versions of the chinese SDC's, and it seems like they are all very, very similar.

I'm using 3U Audio capsules in my clone builds, they sound fantastic even compared to real deal Neumann KM184 and KM84. 


 

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