Rainwater harvesting
« on: May 15, 2020, 11:48:02 AM »
Looks like were heading for a hot dry summer here in Ireland,
weather paterns have shifted appreciably , instead of the usual moisture laden weather from the mid atlantic , were seeing much dryer  weather swirling up from the east and south east .
last year was the first time in living memory we had a hose pipe ban here .

Ive had a plan for many years to use IBC tanks to hold harvested rain water , they can be stacked two high when full allowing delivery to a hose or other irrigation system by gravity feed .
Im planning on trying a small Whale 12volt submersible pump to circulate and aerate from lower to upper tank , seeing as the pump is really only designed for intermittant opperation I might undervolt it a bit , flow rate doesnt need to be massive. I may also look at a home made carbon/sand filter as the water will be going to food producing plants and east of me is some of the most densly packed chemical and pharmaceutical production on the planet.

As always just fishing for any good ideas or suggestions people may have on the subject .

 



 


JohnRoberts

Re: Rainwater harvesting
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2020, 12:10:05 PM »
I have at least one neighbor with a decent sized pond.

I mainly work to move water off my property. I live on relatively low ground so a lot of rain run-off flows through my rain ditches from uphill of me.

I installed a french drain in my front yard to move water out to my front rain ditch that would pool up in the yard for days after a heavy rain.

Pecan trees need a lot of water, so in dry summer weather I block that french drain so the water remains available for my tree roots.

JR

--added picture of water run off from my back rain ditch to my front. You can barely see the top of a 3' diameter culvert where water exits downstream from me.
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

Re: Rainwater harvesting
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2020, 01:45:21 PM »
Looks like it gets a bit swampy under foot there in rainey season .

I'm on limetsone and the ground falls towards the south , about 100 yards away theres a steep cliff of about 100 feet down to the shore of the estuary , in times of heavy rain theres never any danger of flooding ,normally we dont see prolonged drought but when it does happen the ground gets thirsty quickly . Aprils normally our rainey season ,Met office data from the UK shows it was the sunniest April on record since 1929  and were also getting warnings of impending water restrictions here in Ireland . Government here should have incentivised rainwater harvesting systems years ago and we could all be enjoying better quality water from the tap , they had planned on privatising the state water system and charge people per cubic meter ,so no real reason to incentivise when water was to become a cash cow to private enterprise run by their buddies  :(

Spiritworks

Re: Rainwater harvesting
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2020, 08:49:35 AM »
Working in construction for several decades, I've always wondered why building codes don't require any/more water conservation systems - rain water, grey water re-use, etc. For instance,  no need to flush toilets with potable water.  I've also always felt irrigation systems which take potable water should be banned. If you can't eat it, don't water it.
It's been said that the real next world war will be fought over water.

JohnRoberts

Re: Rainwater harvesting
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2020, 12:06:56 PM »
Working in construction for several decades, I've always wondered why building codes don't require any/more water conservation systems - rain water, grey water re-use, etc. For instance,  no need to flush toilets with potable water.  I've also always felt irrigation systems which take potable water should be banned. If you can't eat it, don't water it.
It's been said that the real next world war will be fought over water.
Potable water is already an issue in many regions.  That said the earth's oceans contain copious amounts of salt water, that can be desalinized (and already is in multiple locations) but this cost money/energy so ultimately becomes an economic wealth issue.

Over recent decades we have lifted many out of poverty with trade and economic growth. COVID19 is a set back for this, but hopefully temporary.

JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

abbey road d enfer

Re: Rainwater harvesting
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2020, 12:34:06 PM »
For instance,  no need to flush toilets with potable water.
Agreed, but hardly doable in an existing site. Adding a recycling tank , with associated plumbery and pump is a major endeavour.
For an individual, it's not incentive enough ecomnomically.
Only a government decision could change it.

Quote
I've also always felt irrigation systems which take potable water should be banned. If you can't eat it, don't water it.
I don't get it. What do you suggest instead of potable water? Surely it can't be any uncontrolled water, so there would need to be a system for distribution of "another water". Quite often, here in France, farmers use water from a river or an artesian well for irrigation, but for those who don't have this possibility, I wonder what you propose...
Not criticizing, just curious.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
Star ground is for electricians.

scott2000

Re: Rainwater harvesting
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2020, 12:44:26 PM »
We have separate reclaimed water for irrigation here.. Not sure how it works but, I think it's limited to use for lawns....And maybe some types of  fruit trees...

But yes, landscaping and manicured lawns has always weighed on me... I guess it could get pretty wild if we didn't have them but sometimes it seems silly to me.. .. I enjoy working in the yard though.... sometimes

JohnRoberts

Re: Rainwater harvesting
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2020, 12:55:17 PM »
"But Brawndo's got what plants crave. It's got electrolytes. "    ::)

JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

fazer

Re: Rainwater harvesting
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2020, 02:36:15 PM »
You technically can’t claim rain water in Colorado due to laws passed that prohibit, due to water rights for the run off to creeks and such.   I always hated these water laws.   Lots of water comes to California through the Colorado River yet Colorado is an arid place.  But the mountain snow pack runoff was claimed before Colorado was a state.

  These water rights need challenged and will be as droughts and weather changes, as it constantly does.   Long before climate change was a political issue, drought forced the  native Americans  in southwestern Colorado to leave centuries of  cliff village living )I believe about 1000AD).   The drought made it impossible to inhabit the area.

Matador

Re: Rainwater harvesting
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2020, 02:40:00 PM »
Here's the thing with rainwater for irrigation: plant roots need oxygen, and standing water will be depleted of oxygen by organisms in the water pretty quickly.  Fresh rainwater is obviously great for plants after its trip through the atmosphere, old rainwater not so much.

Putting old rainwater on plants will rapidly deplete the plant roots of oxygen, and promote the growth of bacteria and fungus that will produce sulphur dioxide.  Tap water has been oxygenated to between 4 and 6%, which keeps it clean and provides oxygen to the plant roots, and is toxic enough for bacteria (plus it is chlorinated slightly).

Rainwater looses oxygen rapidly: as in weeks.  I'd you want to use it, you'll need to re-oxygenate the water with bubblers, etc.  Large processing facilities do it with ozone.


pvision

Re: Rainwater harvesting
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2020, 03:22:13 PM »
"But Brawndo's got what plants crave. It's got electrolytes. "    ::)

Idiocracy is a very silly film, very funny - and uncannily prescient bearing in mind the incumbent POTUS

Nick Froome

Re: Rainwater harvesting
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2020, 04:52:58 PM »
Well the idea of using the pump is to recirculate and aerate at the same time , I'll set up a hose spray head off the pump to create the bubbles . I may need to add some small amount of chemical to inhibit microbiological growth ,we'll have to see . At the moment Im looking at sourcing the IBC tanks from a food production facility ,who may have them used surplus , depending on the chemicals they have contained that might not be a good option ,Im looking at around 450 euros for two brand new tanks inc delivery. I may look into feeding the toilet sistern at some point too .

I think Belgium has two grades of water supplied to domestic customers .


Spiritworks

Re: Rainwater harvesting
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2020, 05:33:03 PM »
Agreed, but hardly doable in an existing site. Adding a recycling tank , with associated plumbery and pump is a major endeavour.
For an individual, it's not incentive enough ecomnomically.
Only a government decision could change it.
 I don't get it. What do you suggest instead of potable water? Surely it can't be any uncontrolled water, so there would need to be a system for distribution of "another water". Quite often, here in France, farmers use water from a river or an artesian well for irrigation, but for those who don't have this possibility, I wonder what you propose...
Not criticizing, just curious.

I'm thinking in terms of household irrigation of lawns and ornamentals. I believe it should banned completely if the water is supplied from a municipal supply, and also from private wells. If they're taking water from a private well, it ultimately comes from a shared aquifer, which means - in my opinion - millions and millions of gallons are wasted. Farm and livestock irrigation is obviously a different matter. As I mentioned above, if you can't eat it, don't water it.
There are people who will claim that they have spent a lot of money on landscaping and that they have the right to maintain it. I say bullsh*t, that's simply selfish. Take that money and send it to an organization that will install wells in areas of the world where people still don't have enough fresh water.

abbey road d enfer

Re: Rainwater harvesting
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2020, 05:39:14 PM »
I think Belgium has two grades of water supplied to domestic customers .
The only reference I could find about that is in big cities, like Paris, where, in addition to distribution of potable water to citizens, a second network of non potable water exist, that is used for street cleaning and watering of public parks and gardens.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
Star ground is for electricians.

scott2000

Re: Rainwater harvesting
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2020, 05:55:34 PM »
There are people who will claim that they have spent a lot of money on landscaping and that they have the right to maintain it
Don't forget about all of the HOAs...

You will lose your home if you don't take care of your yard or refuse to reimburse them when they have someone do it. 
And if you don't pay your dues which include the upkeep up the common grounds.

And all of that chemical spraying and fertilizers to maintain all this stuff.... ugh.....


The only reference I could find about that is in big cities, like Paris, where, in addition to distribution of potable water to citizens, a second network of non potable water exist, that is used for street cleaning and watering of public parks and gardens.

https://floridadep.gov/water/domestic-wastewater/content/uses-reclaimed-water


Our reclaimed  irrigation pipes are purple to distinguish from the tap water. Which is actually at the outdoor spigots... So you can still drink from a hose for example. But sprinklers are all reclaimed... the water bill separates the usage as well iirc...would have to look....

I don't think it's statewide yet...
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 06:08:40 PM by scott2000 »

abbey road d enfer

Re: Rainwater harvesting
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2020, 03:35:52 AM »
https://floridadep.gov/water/domestic-wastewater/content/uses-reclaimed-water


Our reclaimed  irrigation pipes are purple to distinguish from the tap water. Which is actually at the outdoor spigots... So you can still drink from a hose for example. But sprinklers are all reclaimed... the water bill separates the usage as well iirc...would have to look....

I don't think it's statewide yet...
Interesting! So basically they have made reclaimed water available to individuals, not only to public organizations.
Are all houses connected? When did they do it? Must have necessitated huge works...
Indeed in FL, the water stake is huge.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
Star ground is for electricians.

scott2000

Re: Rainwater harvesting
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2020, 10:22:56 AM »
Interesting! So basically they have made reclaimed water available to individuals, not only to public organizations.
Are all houses connected? When did they do it? Must have necessitated huge works...
Indeed in FL, the water stake is huge.

Yes.  Reclaimed water has been around for a while as far as residential irrigation goes. I can't remember off hand when I first saw it happening. I've been where I'm at for about 15 years and it's been here afaik. I remember it being around quite  a long time  before then. .   There are 2 meters for each house to distinguish..

I never really put too much though into it tbh. Just figured it was something that was being done everywhere but looking more, I guess it's not and, there is a process to getting access to it and getting  it implemented, restrictions, etc..

We do have watering day restrictions... It varies from either 1 day per week to 2 . I have always just set timer for 1 day. But , if the rain sensor has water in it, the system wont turn on anyhow...

Looks like rain barrels are encouraged too...
http://www.occonservewater.net/programs/incentive/rainbarrel

I guess it describes a reclaim process here? Idk....

http://www.waterconservii.com/reclaimed-water-process/


May be different in other areas.... I always associated it with poop somehow...although it's never smelled..... I'm pretty fascinated now.... We do get some heavy rains and I have several french drains installed around my house to keep the water flowing off the property... Maybe I'll look into rain collection.....

Here's another article from 89 talking about reclaimed sewage.....maybe a reason for the poop association....hmmm lots to learn.......
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-1989-07-02-8907020051-story.html




abbey road d enfer

Re: Rainwater harvesting
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2020, 01:00:50 PM »
Looks like rain barrels are encouraged too...
http://www.occonservewater.net/programs/incentive/rainbarrel
I remember, in my parent's house, built 1905, there was a huge cistern, that took a good part of the basement. Something like 4000 gallons, connected to the gutters. I helped my father reclaiming the space, making an opening in the wall made of millstone and lime mortar, took me days with a hammer and pick.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
Star ground is for electricians.

JohnRoberts

Re: Rainwater harvesting
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2020, 11:23:49 AM »

 We do get some heavy rains and I have several french drains installed around my house to keep the water flowing off the property... Maybe I'll look into rain collection.....


I installed one buried drain (130' long) connecting my back rain ditch to my front rain ditch, that drains down lower. I also have a much shorter french drain in my front yard to move standing water from an area of my yard out to the front ditch.

In late summer when my pecan trees need the water more, I block that french drain, so the trees can benefit from the extra rain water.

JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

justinheronmusic

Re: Rainwater harvesting
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2020, 12:05:38 PM »
I had heard that rainwater harvesting is illegal in certain states in the US. I know in Indiana they were trying to pass a law saying that you couldn't harvest electricity through solar panels.
Justin Heron
Artist / Recording Engineer


 

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